Rittenhouse Case

[dismalist]

Conservatives bristle at charges of racism after years of race baiting and stoking racial resentments

Contemporary race accusation is a product of the left.

And this is the heart of the Rittenhouse case?

[Wahoo Redux]

Conservatives bristle at charges of racism after years of race baiting and stoking racial resentments

Contemporary race accusation is a product of the left.

And this is the heart of the Rittenhouse case?

Well, the Kenosha unrest was a reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting----so yes, race is at the very heart of the Rittenhouse case.

Rittenhouse's beliefs are a mystery.  He did go drinking with the Proud Boys after he made bail, and apparently he was photographed making a "white power" hand gesture (thumb and forefinger in a circle) which was actually a faux-symbol from a 4chan hoax-----the question would be if Rittenhouse knew that or not, or if he was bright enough to know who the Proud Boys are.  Was he doing parody?  Or was he drunk and carried away?  Or was he making a white power hand gesture?

I don't know----I've never even been to Kenosha----but I'll say again that he, like a lot of us at that age, seems to be an impressionable teenager caught up in the idea of vigilante heroics, and he is paying the price for it.  And at the very deepest heart, race is at the center of these heroics.

And sure, the left launched a number of race accusations.  However, we have real problems with race in our country, something that many conservatives resist, probably because it conflicts with their mythologies.  Do "leftists" pull the hair-trigger on race a good deal?  Sure.  But part of this is because conservatives, by and large, frequently have their own reflexive hair-trigger regarding race.  The two polarities galvanize each other ad nauseum. 

[mahagonny]

Conservatives bristle at charges of racism after years of race baiting and stoking racial resentments

Contemporary race accusation is a product of the left.

And this is the heart of the Rittenhouse case?

Well, the Kenosha unrest was a reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting----so yes, race is at the very heart of the Rittenhouse case.

...because the Jacob Blake incident and the George Floyd incident were about race. Okay...

ETA:  What was this incident about?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tony_Timpa

[Wahoo Redux]

Conservatives bristle at charges of racism after years of race baiting and stoking racial resentments

Contemporary race accusation is a product of the left.

And this is the heart of the Rittenhouse case?

Well, the Kenosha unrest was a reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting----so yes, race is at the very heart of the Rittenhouse case.

...because the Jacob Blake incident and the George Floyd incident were about race. Okay...

ETA:  What was this incident about?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tony_Timpa

Well, I don't know that any of those incidents were truly about race.  I cannot imagine anybody torturing someone as the police did Floyd no matter how they are.  I simply cannot understand that. 

I don't know that the killing of Timpa was about race----I had never heard of the incident before.   It sounds more like police brutality to me, as does the Floyd case.  The Blake case sounds to me like excessive force on an admittedly violent and armed criminal.  I wouldn't know how to gage that one.

Importantly, however, the perception of these incidents as racial profiling and unwarranted police violence toward a minority person is how they are fixed in many people's minds.  That is why the heart of these protests are race, rightly or wrongly.

But why even bring this up, mahagonny?  Why is that some people, very often angry conservatives, try to play these sorts of games?

If you think Timpa's death was an atrocity, go protest it.  That is your right.

Or maybe you should get some therapy, my man.

[mahagonny]

Conservatives bristle at charges of racism after years of race baiting and stoking racial resentments

Contemporary race accusation is a product of the left.

And this is the heart of the Rittenhouse case?

Well, the Kenosha unrest was a reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting----so yes, race is at the very heart of the Rittenhouse case.

...because the Jacob Blake incident and the George Floyd incident were about race. Okay...

ETA:  What was this incident about?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tony_Timpa

Well, I don't know that any of those incidents were truly about race.  I cannot imagine anybody torturing someone as the police did Floyd no matter how they are.  I simply cannot understand that. 

I don't know that the killing of Timpa was about race----I had never heard of the incident before.   It sounds more like police brutality to me, as does the Floyd case.  The Blake case sounds to me like excessive force on an admittedly violent and armed criminal.  I wouldn't know how to gage that one.

Importantly, however, the perception of these incidents as racial profiling and unwarranted police violence toward a minority person is how they are fixed in many people's minds.  That is why the heart of these protests are race, rightly or wrongly.

But why even bring this up, mahagonny?  Why is that some people, very often angry conservatives, try to play these sorts of games?

If you think Timpa's death was an atrocity, go protest it.  That is your right.

Or maybe you should get some therapy, my man.

Hah. That's your response?
Of course you never heard of Tony Timpa. Turn off MSNBC and CNN and have a look around. There's a lot going on.

ETA: Look here, brother...I guess I'm trying to rub it in that you've been taken for a ride by the untrustworthy, rabid liberal media. They've been serving koolaid by the gallon, and you've been served generously. Nothing personal. If it's embarrassing, think of this: you've got lots of company.

ETA: These police killings are not about race, and by themselves they are only minor stories. The public's reaction is the story.  Overzealous, ignorant or mean police screwing up their work is to the media like popcorn without butter and salt. Add these (race war and accusation) and you've got something that people will buy. That's why we are here at this time.

[Wahoo Redux]

You rub nothing in, brother.  You have simply gone full-on Brietbart. 

[mahagonny]

You rub nothing in, brother.  You have simply gone full-on Brietbart.

I do not read Breitbart currently, never have,  but I get your putdown. I have cooties. Touché!
Have you checked out Joy Reid recently? Breitbart may easily not be the worst thing on cable news.

We actually agreed on plenty, upthread. However...

Kyle Rittenhouse is a dumb kid who's in over his head, eh? Not to me. He was an excellent witness. Not many 18 year olds could handle what he has. He did everything the defense needed him to. Poised, informed, face full of expression. I'd let that lifeguard pull me out of the undertow any day.

Some people are physically braver than others. They have occupations that are right for them.

What are we going to do in the future when small businesses need protection from arsonists and the police are pulling back, restraining themselves too much, so the mayor won't get slaughtered in the media? Where there's a void it will be filled. I wouldn't encourage independent people who see themselves as armed peacekeepers, but I surely won't surprised when they show up. We're asking for it.

I never thought I'd be happy being called a conservative, but i surely don't want to be called a liberal. Not these days.
Several people who have the right take on these issues are Glenn Loury, Coleman Hughes and John McWhorter.  No, I didn't say Steve Bannon.

[marshwiggle]

The kid was being attacked. I have only watched the videos once, but it seemed pretty clear to me.

He was brandishing a weapon, which by definition makes him the aggressor.

Pretty obviously Grosskreutz was the aggressor in their interaction.

Wikipedia does not have a paywall:

Rittenhouse had been pursued by a group that included Kenosha resident Joseph Rosenbaum, who was unarmed.[10] After Racine resident Joshua Ziminski allegedly fired a shot into the air,[11][12] Rittenhouse turned towards Rosenbaum,[13] who according to a witness lunged at him and tried to take his rifle.[14] Rittenhouse fired four times at Rosenbaum, killing him.[15][16] Rittenhouse then ran down the street while being followed by a crowd of around a dozen people.[17] He tripped and fell to the ground after being hit in the head, then fired twice at a 39-year-old man who jump kicked him, his shots missing both times.[18][19] While Rittenhouse was still on the ground, Silver Lake resident Anthony Huber struck him in the shoulder with a skateboard and attempted to take his rifle. Rittenhouse fired at Huber once, fatally striking him in the chest.[10][20] When West Allis resident Gaige Grosskreutz approached Rittenhouse while carrying a handgun which, in court, he admitted having pointed at Rittenhouse.[21] Rittenhouse shot him once in the right arm.[20][22]

Should Grosskreutz be charged as well?

[mahagonny]

Of course he should. What if Rittenhouse had missed and hit a bystander? It would be Grosskreutz who initiated the chain of events by doing something illegal.

[jimbogumbo]

The kid was being attacked. I have only watched the videos once, but it seemed pretty clear to me.

He was brandishing a weapon, which by definition makes him the aggressor.

Pretty obviously Grosskreutz was the aggressor in their interaction.

Wikipedia does not have a paywall:

Rittenhouse had been pursued by a group that included Kenosha resident Joseph Rosenbaum, who was unarmed.[10] After Racine resident Joshua Ziminski allegedly fired a shot into the air,[11][12] Rittenhouse turned towards Rosenbaum,[13] who according to a witness lunged at him and tried to take his rifle.[14] Rittenhouse fired four times at Rosenbaum, killing him.[15][16] Rittenhouse then ran down the street while being followed by a crowd of around a dozen people.[17] He tripped and fell to the ground after being hit in the head, then fired twice at a 39-year-old man who jump kicked him, his shots missing both times.[18][19] While Rittenhouse was still on the ground, Silver Lake resident Anthony Huber struck him in the shoulder with a skateboard and attempted to take his rifle. Rittenhouse fired at Huber once, fatally striking him in the chest.[10][20] When West Allis resident Gaige Grosskreutz approached Rittenhouse while carrying a handgun which, in court, he admitted having pointed at Rittenhouse.[21] Rittenhouse shot him once in the right arm.[20][22]

Should Grosskreutz be charged as well?

I was under the impression that Grosskreutz had just seen two people killed with a gun. I thought we "wanted" a good person with a gun to intervene in such a situation.

[dismalist]

So, look, President says verdict must be respected even though it makes him angry

"will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included."

Secretary of Transport echoes "And for a lot of us, there's just a lot to be upset about, a lot to be concerned about"

So, to hell with the judiciary!

[mahagonny]

So, look, President says verdict must be respected even though it makes him angry

"will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included."

Secretary of Transport echoes "And for a lot of us, there's just a lot to be upset about, a lot to be concerned about"

So, to hell with the judiciary!

The deplorables have rendered their verdict, and being good Americans, we respect it.

Should Grosskreutz be charged as well?
[/quote]

I was under the impression that Grosskreutz had just seen two people killed with a gun. I thought we "wanted" a good person with a gun to intervene in such a situation.
[/quote]

This would go to the argument for using law enforcement (who are already being paid) to prevent assembly of unruly people to begin with.

[jimbogumbo]

So, look, President says verdict must be respected even though it makes him angry

"will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included."

Secretary of Transport echoes "And for a lot of us, there's just a lot to be upset about, a lot to be concerned about"

So, to hell with the judiciary!

Nothing about the Buttegieg quote implies that. Here it is from FoxNews in full:

"Look, there's a lot of pain in this country, and that pain and that frustration was aroused by the entire case, including the verdict," Buttigieg said. "And for a lot of us, there's just a lot to be upset about, a lot to be concerned about, but we'll move forward as a country.

"The president continues to believe and this administration continues to believe in America and we've got to continue working to bring Americans together," he said."

I'm fairly confident that you and I have both felt that way about various cases and verdicts. Are we saying "to hell with the judiciary" when we have those feelings? I know I'm not.

[dismalist]

So, look, President says verdict must be respected even though it makes him angry

"will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included."

Secretary of Transport echoes "And for a lot of us, there's just a lot to be upset about, a lot to be concerned about"

So, to hell with the judiciary!

Nothing about the Buttegieg quote implies that. Here it is from FoxNews in full:

"Look, there's a lot of pain in this country, and that pain and that frustration was aroused by the entire case, including the verdict," Buttigieg said. "And for a lot of us, there's just a lot to be upset about, a lot to be concerned about, but we'll move forward as a country.

"The president continues to believe and this administration continues to believe in America and we've got to continue working to bring Americans together," he said."

I'm fairly confident that you and I have both felt that way about various cases and verdicts. Are we saying "to hell with the judiciary" when we have those feelings? I know I'm not.

Both politicians contradict themselves in a single message each. This means anything is possible.

Look, it's the logic that worries me. Not the substance, for there appears to be none.

[mahagonny]

Both politicians contradict themselves in a single message each. This means anything is possible.

Look, it's the logic that worries me. Not the substance, for there appears to be none.

Agreed! When two contrary messages are there, only one is meant. The message 'we must have faith in the courts/we must work to bring America together' is obligatory. The message that they mean is 'we are angry and need to stay angry.' The left thinks it is winning the culture war. That's why the Rittenhouse trial needs to be about race. It's another theatre in which the war can be fought.

Interesting piece....https://www.city-journal.org/how-progressives-enforce-ideological-conformity

The left is losing the culture war with the voters. Witness Virginia, New Jersey, Biden's approval rating. But they're charging full speed ahead, with few exceptions, e.g. Bill Maher, James Carville, trying to warn them.

From the city journal piece:

"While ordinary Americans seem to be souring on political correctness, it remains a booming business in the centers of wealth and power. For corporations, philanthropic foundations, and individuals, purification—surely driven as much by fear of exposure as by true belief—requires the public affirmation of woke orthodoxy..."

ETA: whoa just saw this, sickening....https://www.masslive.com/news/2021/11/car-rams-through-waukesha-holiday-parade-leaving-at-least-5-dead-40-injured-in-milwaukee-suburb.html