South Carolina abolishing tenure

[Parasaurolophus]

Going forward, anyway. Here's HB 4522, the Cancelling Professor Tenure Act.

[mleok]

They are also proposing to mandate a minimum teaching load of 2/2 or 2/2/2, which was much more than the initial 1/1 load (for the first three years) I was offered at the University of South Carolina many years ago.

[waterboy]

I would like to believe this would lead (eventually) to a really difficult time hiring faculty. But give adjunct pools, I doubt that would happen. (Apologies for dipping into the adjunct fire here)

[jimbogumbo]

Or as some call it, the "Screw Clemson and University of South Carolina(Columbia) bill".

[mleok]

I would like to believe this would lead (eventually) to a really difficult time hiring faculty. But give adjunct pools, I doubt that would happen. (Apologies for dipping into the adjunct fire here)

We'll get to test the claims that people on the adjunct hamster wheel are every bit as qualified as tenure-track/tenured faculty.

[Wahoo Redux]

I would like to believe this would lead (eventually) to a really difficult time hiring faculty. But give adjunct pools, I doubt that would happen. (Apologies for dipping into the adjunct fire here)

Some of us are looking at perilous jobs scenarios at our home institutions.  There will be no dearth of humanities academics seeking jobs in the near future.

I suspect this part of the reason SC can do this.

[Wahoo Redux]

I would like to believe this would lead (eventually) to a really difficult time hiring faculty. But give adjunct pools, I doubt that would happen. (Apologies for dipping into the adjunct fire here)

We'll get to test the claims that people on the adjunct hamster wheel are every bit as qualified as tenure-track/tenured faculty.

Be fair.

I have never heard anyone say or post that.

Usually I hear the opposite, at least from academics.  Or more specifically, I hear that it is actually hard to populate classes with highly qualified people when picking from the adjunct pool.

[marshwiggle]

I would like to believe this would lead (eventually) to a really difficult time hiring faculty. But give adjunct pools, I doubt that would happen. (Apologies for dipping into the adjunct fire here)

We'll get to test the claims that people on the adjunct hamster wheel are every bit as qualified as tenure-track/tenured faculty.

It will also test the claim that the absence of tenure requires higher salaries to retain faculty.

[simpleSimon]

Some (professional) accrediting bodies require that a certain percentage of faculty be full time and tenured.  I wonder how that requirement might intersect with this move to eliminate tenure.

[mleok]

I would like to believe this would lead (eventually) to a really difficult time hiring faculty. But give adjunct pools, I doubt that would happen. (Apologies for dipping into the adjunct fire here)

We'll get to test the claims that people on the adjunct hamster wheel are every bit as qualified as tenure-track/tenured faculty.

Be fair.

I have never heard anyone say or post that.

Usually I hear the opposite, at least from academics.  Or more specifically, I hear that it is actually hard to populate classes with highly qualified people when picking from the adjunct pool.

Maybe not on the forum, but I read that kind of claim all the time in messaging from adjunct unions, and statements to the press.

[mleok]

I would like to believe this would lead (eventually) to a really difficult time hiring faculty. But give adjunct pools, I doubt that would happen. (Apologies for dipping into the adjunct fire here)

We'll get to test the claims that people on the adjunct hamster wheel are every bit as qualified as tenure-track/tenured faculty.

It will also test the claim that the absence of tenure requires higher salaries to retain faculty.

In fields like business and computer science, I think you'll see that happen, but for fields where to pipeline to high-level non-academic jobs is weaker, perhaps not.

[dismalist]

So, how does one get the five-year employment contract? Be on a tenure-like track? Get reviewed every five years?

My guess is that it would or will be a different type of tenure, not so secure, but pretty damn secure.

[Parasaurolophus]

So, how does one get the five-year employment contract? Be on a tenure-like track? Get reviewed every five years?

My guess is that it would or will be a different type of tenure, not so secure, but pretty damn secure.

It also depends on how salaries end up being calculated. Without tenure, the concept of a salary as such may also go out the window, so that it's more strongly tethered to the number of courses one actually teaches (that sounds kind of likely to me, given the emphasis on increasing the minimum teaching load). At that point, even if the per-course pay is high and the benefits are good (and they probably will be) you're really at the mercy of enrollments. All it takes is a policy from on-high that courses enrolled at 76% of the cap and below will be cancelled, and you're on pretty thin ice.

(I speak from experience here.)

[dismalist]

So, how does one get the five-year employment contract? Be on a tenure-like track? Get reviewed every five years?

My guess is that it would or will be a different type of tenure, not so secure, but pretty damn secure.

It also depends on how salaries end up being calculated. Without tenure, the concept of a salary as such may also go out the window, so that it's more strongly tethered to the number of courses one actually teaches (that sounds kind of likely to me, given the emphasis on increasing the minimum teaching load). At that point, even if the per-course pay is high and the benefits are good (and they probably will be) you're really at the mercy of enrollments. All it takes is a policy from on-high that courses enrolled at 76% of the cap and below will be cancelled, and you're on pretty thin ice.

(I speak from experience here.)

Which, for teaching undergraduates, and the specific numbers aside, is as it should be.

[jimbogumbo]

My comment upthread wasn't related to the tenure part. I'm sure that the STEM folks can function with long-term contracts. In fact, many already do. Rather, it is the teach at least two courses part. Depending on how that is implemented, we are talking about researchers who will REALLY want to be someplace else. For the majority of people on this board (including me) that would not be an issue. The STEM reproachers at a research intensive university simply couldn't get the research they do done with that load.