Favorite student emails

[the_geneticist]

The zoom/recording option also assumes that the students DO NOT need to interact with you or with their classmates.  We know that straight lecture is not a good way to teach.  If your classes are so one-directional (you give content to students), then you're honestly not a good instructor, regardless of the modality.  It is HARD to create good hybrid classes simply because it is really challenging to incorporate student-student interactions. 
And different populations of students need different types of support.  Our students are mostly first-to-college, not very prepared academically, and need to go to class.  Giving them the option to "just watch the video later!" is setting them up to fail because they will get behind and not be able to catch up.  They are still learning how to be a responsible student, many are trying to balance work and school and family obligations.  The "You need to go to class/take notes/read the materials" message hasn't sunk in yet. 
Yes, I know some will be successful, regardless of instructional method - we can't pat ourselves on the back too hard for them since they would succeed anywhere.  And some will fail, regardless of support system - can't drag anyone kicking and screaming towards success.  But it's the students in the middle that really need the reinforced exceptions of "GO TO CLASS".

[Katrina Gulliver]

Our students are mostly first-to-college, not very prepared academically, and need to go to class.  Giving them the option to "just watch the video later!" is setting them up to fail because they will get behind and not be able to catch up.

This.

I found it very frustrating, pre-pandemic, that the students most likely to take up the "just watch the lecture recording" option were the first-gen, ESL, students: those who most needed the support of being in class, and the cultural and social capital that comes with it. 
We are selling them short by treating attendance as optional - especially if we're covering it with claims of "accessibility", as well as devaluing the classroom experience.
Alas, this seems to be setting in as the situation post-covid.

[FishProf]

We have a population of faculty who still want to use CV19 as a reason for all remote, all the time.

They have been told in no uncertain terms, return to in-person in the fall, or resign, or retire.

There was cheering from at least some of us on the STEM side of campus. who've been doing f2f all along  (save the 2 mo. initial closures).

[onthefringe]

The zoom/recording option also assumes that the students DO NOT need to interact with you or with their classmates.  We know that straight lecture is not a good way to teach.  If your classes are so one-directional (you give content to students), then you're honestly not a good instructor, regardless of the modality.  It is HARD to create good hybrid classes simply because it is really challenging to incorporate student-student interactions. 
And different populations of students need different types of support.  Our students are mostly first-to-college, not very prepared academically, and need to go to class.  Giving them the option to "just watch the video later!" is setting them up to fail because they will get behind and not be able to catch up.  They are still learning how to be a responsible student, many are trying to balance work and school and family obligations.  The "You need to go to class/take notes/read the materials" message hasn't sunk in yet. 
Yes, I know some will be successful, regardless of instructional method - we can't pat ourselves on the back too hard for them since they would succeed anywhere.  And some will fail, regardless of support system - can't drag anyone kicking and screaming towards success.  But it's the students in the middle that really need the reinforced exceptions of "GO TO CLASS".

But in my experience there are other ways to get (my population of) students to come to class, and the recordings become a way for them to review or check their understanding of something they did not get the first time. I am very clear that the recordings aren't a substitute for the in person experience. But if someone is ill (and I do not want people with covid coming to class) the recordings are a better way to catch up then a classmate's notes.

[sinenomine]

We have a population of faculty who still want to use CV19 as a reason for all remote, all the time.

They have been told in no uncertain terms, return to in-person in the fall, or resign, or retire.

There was cheering from at least some of us on the STEM side of campus. who've been doing f2f all along  (save the 2 mo. initial closures).

I wish the admincritters at my school would take the same stance — I'm really tired of the inequitable treatment.

[science.expat]

Interesting discussion.

FWIW from my perspective in Australia, we have a lot of students who work (at least almost) full time and/or have family caring responsibilities. If the timetable were arranged so that all an individual's learning were in blocks, then it would make sense to require them to attend. But I cannot see how we can demand that students attend for poorly timetabled single hour sessions that may interfere with their other responsibilities. Particularly if those sessions do not involve the acquisition of hands on skills.

[Hegemony]

We have a population of faculty who still want to use CV19 as a reason for all remote, all the time.

They have been told in no uncertain terms, return to in-person in the fall, or resign, or retire.

There was cheering from at least some of us on the STEM side of campus. who've been doing f2f all along  (save the 2 mo. initial closures).

Before the pandemic, my university was all about "Develop online courses! We need more online courses!" Now it's "We don't want any online courses! Stop requesting online courses!"

But ... online asynchronous courses are boons to a number of students, as well as to a number of faculty. Some students have jobs that keep changing their hours unpredictably, and an online class ensures they can keep the job and their progress through college. Some courses are particularly suited to online methods. And Covid is still the third leading cause of death in the U.S. So those of us who are older, who have underlying conditions like asthma or diabetes or both — it's not mere whim and self-indulgence that leads us to request more online courses.

[marshwiggle]

We have a population of faculty who still want to use CV19 as a reason for all remote, all the time.

They have been told in no uncertain terms, return to in-person in the fall, or resign, or retire.

There was cheering from at least some of us on the STEM side of campus. who've been doing f2f all along  (save the 2 mo. initial closures).

Before the pandemic, my university was all about "Develop online courses! We need more online courses!" Now it's "We don't want any online courses! Stop requesting online courses!"

But ... online asynchronous courses are boons to a number of students, as well as to a number of faculty.

Bingo. Asynchronous courses can take advantage of being online.  Synchronous online courses are the worst of both worlds.

[FishProf]

There is a difference between "more" as you said, and "all" as I said.

We have an entire department that tried to schedule the Fall 23 schedule as online. 

As is often the case, reasonable accommodations get swamped (and then lost) in the sea of unreasonable accommodations.

[downer]

As students become more proficient at using AI like Chat GPT, and as the AI gets better, online asynchronous classes are going to be increasingly difficult to teach in a meaningful way. That doesn't necessarily mean that students don't learn -- not all students cheat. But a lot do, and that means that 3 credits in an online class doesn't guarantee much learning. That's true of any work submitted online, but a lot of online classes have a major discussion component, so it is especially pressing for online courses. I haven't heard of any administration with a good or even a weak solution to this worry. Individual faculty have some solutions but it's unclear how much cheating that eliminates. I guess a lot of people are hoping that Turnitin's AI detector is good enough. But the problem does pose a threat to the future of online courses.

[Hegemony]

True enough. The courses I teach are so niche that AI can't handle them. One student tried to turn in a chatbot-written assignment and it stood out a mile; it was all bland generalities and nothing about the actual texts we're studying. (Yes, I turned her in for academic misconduct.)

I also have the students use Hypothesis to write group annotations on some of our texts, and chatbots would be entirely unable to handle the kind of annotations needed. It also helps that chatbots are currently unable to quote accurately (they make up quotes) and provide accurate citations (they make up articles and page numbers and the like). Whatever the future holds, there's a lot the chatbots currently can't handle at all.

[MarathonRunner]

True enough. The courses I teach are so niche that AI can't handle them. One student tried to turn in a chatbot-written assignment and it stood out a mile; it was all bland generalities and nothing about the actual texts we're studying. (Yes, I turned her in for academic misconduct.)

I also have the students use Hypothesis to write group annotations on some of our texts, and chatbots would be entirely unable to handle the kind of annotations needed. It also helps that chatbots are currently unable to quote accurately (they make up quotes) and provide accurate citations (they make up articles and page numbers and the like). Whatever the future holds, there's a lot the chatbots currently can't handle at all.

Yes. I use a lot of case studies in my online courses. ChatGPT and the like can't really account for all of the nuances. Like recommending a fish oil supplement for a vegetarian. Umm, no. For purely factual assignments it seems okay (passing grade, but not top grades) except for the made up citations. Asking it to review and comment upon a given program or intervention , using a method we've learned in class, produces something not worthy of a passing grade. I'm using the free version. The new paid version may do better.

[apl68]

Interesting discussion.

FWIW from my perspective in Australia, we have a lot of students who work (at least almost) full time and/or have family caring responsibilities. If the timetable were arranged so that all an individual's learning were in blocks, then it would make sense to require them to attend. But I cannot see how we can demand that students attend for poorly timetabled single hour sessions that may interfere with their other responsibilities. Particularly if those sessions do not involve the acquisition of hands on skills.

I suppose a lot of university class scheduling is still based on the assumption of traditional-age students who live on campus and whose lives and schedules can reasonably be expected to revolve around their schooling.  They're responsible for arranging their schedules around whatever class schedule the school sees fit to draw up.  And of course that's no longer a reasonable assumption for many student populations. 

[apl68]

We have a population of faculty who still want to use CV19 as a reason for all remote, all the time.

They have been told in no uncertain terms, return to in-person in the fall, or resign, or retire.

There was cheering from at least some of us on the STEM side of campus. who've been doing f2f all along  (save the 2 mo. initial closures).

Before the pandemic, my university was all about "Develop online courses! We need more online courses!" Now it's "We don't want any online courses! Stop requesting online courses!"

Well, what can we say?  The Plague Year when everything was online taught them to be careful what they ask for.

I see your point about how some still have legitimate concerns regarding face-to-face classes.

[apl68]

As students become more proficient at using AI like Chat GPT, and as the AI gets better, online asynchronous classes are going to be increasingly difficult to teach in a meaningful way. That doesn't necessarily mean that students don't learn -- not all students cheat. But a lot do, and that means that 3 credits in an online class doesn't guarantee much learning. That's true of any work submitted online, but a lot of online classes have a major discussion component, so it is especially pressing for online courses. I haven't heard of any administration with a good or even a weak solution to this worry. Individual faculty have some solutions but it's unclear how much cheating that eliminates. I guess a lot of people are hoping that Turnitin's AI detector is good enough. But the problem does pose a threat to the future of online courses.

AI cheating really does threaten to undermine the credibility of online education.  I'm not one to assume that because an AI application has made dramatic progress recently that it's going to just keep on racing ahead indefinitely--if that was the case, we'd already have large numbers of fully autonomous vehicles on the road, and it's evident from the way that technology has plateaued that that's not happening anytime soon.  But plagiarism bots AI writing tools like Chat GPT are already obviously effective enough to be disruptive in many cases.