Favorite student emails

[science.expat]

Still one of the best lines from The Simpsons, from Ned's hipster parents: "We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas."

Much quoted in my house.

And after Department Meetings.

I am so going to use this! Probably as an interrogative - 'So you mean you've tried nothing and you're out of ideas?'

:-)

[mahagonny]

Professor Mahagonny,
I apologize for the inconvenience but I'm very sick and unable to make today's class.- Ken

Thinking: Ken, why do I never apologize when I get sick? Because I don't feel guilty, and the inconvenience will be understood as unavoidable? And what's inconvenient about my not seeing you, again? (However, because he includes the word 'very' he probably is sick this time, but feels guilty about the other times he blew off class. Which almost certainly he did, because, he's always 'not feeling well' but always fat and sassy when I see him.)

[apl68]

Professor Mahagonny,
I apologize for the inconvenience but I'm very sick and unable to make today's class.- Ken

Thinking: Ken, why do I never apologize when I get sick? Because I don't feel guilty, and the inconvenience will be understood as unavoidable? And what's inconvenient about my not seeing you, again?

That one is surely a cultural thing.  The student has been brought up to understand that his actions--such as not showing up for class--have consequences for others, and to be apologetic for it when it happens, even when it is due to circumstances beyond his control.  It's perhaps unnecessary in this case, but still suggests that the student is much more considerate and thoughtful than some. 

I do the same thing when I'm unable to meet a commitment due to illness.  I don't necessarily feel guilty, but I do feel the need to apologize for not meeting the commitment.

[mahagonny]

Professor Mahagonny,
I apologize for the inconvenience but I'm very sick and unable to make today's class.- Ken

Thinking: Ken, why do I never apologize when I get sick? Because I don't feel guilty, and the inconvenience will be understood as unavoidable? And what's inconvenient about my not seeing you, again?

That one is surely a cultural thing.  The student has been brought up to understand that his actions--such as not showing up for class--have consequences for others, and to be apologetic for it when it happens, even when it is due to circumstances beyond his control.  It's perhaps unnecessary in this case, but still suggests that the student is much more considerate and thoughtful than some. 

I do the same thing when I'm unable to meet a commitment due to illness.  I don't necessarily feel guilty, but I do feel the need to apologize for not meeting the commitment.

So...he comes from a nice family, now if I could just get him to do some work...

thanks, apl68

[apl68]

Well yeah, nice is no substitute for not doing the required work.  I've encountered staff members like that as an employer...

[Parasaurolophus]

Hi Parasaurolophus,

I was curious about eLearn as to  why I have a course total of F when I passed both Quiz #1 and #2?


Thanks,

Student

Hi Student,

That's because each quiz is worth 10%. So even if you got 15/15 on both, that would give you a total in the course so far of 20%, which is well below the passing threshold (50%).


Take care,
-Para

[Caracal]

Hi Parasaurolophus,

I was curious about eLearn as to  why I have a course total of F when I passed both Quiz #1 and #2?


Thanks,

Student

Hi Student,

That's because each quiz is worth 10%. So even if you got 15/15 on both, that would give you a total in the course so far of 20%, which is well below the passing threshold (50%).


Take care,
-Para

Is that how your CMS shows grades, or have you specifically set it up this way? It seems confusing to be showing grades of 0 for assessments that haven't yet taken place. The default for our system is that grades are only factored in once they are entered. If there have only been two quizzes thus far, a student who has passed both of them is on track to pass the class. It seems like the current grade they see should reflect that if it is going to be useful.

[marshwiggle]

Hi Parasaurolophus,

I was curious about eLearn as to  why I have a course total of F when I passed both Quiz #1 and #2?


Thanks,

Student

Hi Student,

That's because each quiz is worth 10%. So even if you got 15/15 on both, that would give you a total in the course so far of 20%, which is well below the passing threshold (50%).


Take care,
-Para

Is that how your CMS shows grades, or have you specifically set it up this way? It seems confusing to be showing grades of 0 for assessments that haven't yet taken place. The default for our system is that grades are only factored in once they are entered. If there have only been two quizzes thus far, a student who has passed both of them is on track to pass the class. It seems like the current grade they see should reflect that if it is going to be useful.

"Average grade to date" and "cumulative grade" both have advantages and disadvantages. The former will often overestimate the final grade, the latter will, by definition, underestimate it. I personally prefer cumulative, because I can tell students "This is what you'd get if you stop now and don't do anything else in the course." If a final exam is worth 40 or 50%, it's possible for a person with an average grade so far of A to still fail the course.

[Parasaurolophus]

Is that how your CMS shows grades, or have you specifically set it up this way?

It's how it shows the grades by default. I'm sure I could just hide the final grade column or manually uncheck a 'count as zero' option somewhere if I poked around, but I dunno if I should, really. Once students have done a fair few assignments, rather than just the first couple, it seems useful to know how they're doing, especially just before the final. Shrug. I could go either way.

[Caracal]

"Average grade to date" and "cumulative grade" both have advantages and disadvantages. The former will often overestimate the final grade, the latter will, by definition, underestimate it. I personally prefer cumulative, because I can tell students "This is what you'd get if you stop now and don't do anything else in the course." If a final exam is worth 40 or 50%, it's possible for a person with an average grade so far of A to still fail the course.

Sure, but I think almost all students are aware of that. I don't love students being able to see their grade at all time on Canvas because I agree that it can sometimes create a weird belief that since they were "getting an A" at some point, something strange and unfair has happened if their grade drops, but I found students just expect it and it isn't a hill worth dying on. Similarly, I think if you have a grade it should probably be the grade the student is currently earning based on the work to that point.

[mamselle]

I always muted it (as per a previous forum suggestion) and did an update at the mid-term of their estimated grade to date in person.

Since I was teaching French and there was a recitation component that followed their handing in the mid-term, I used a minute or two of each recitation slot to go over the update (I did a small quarter-page form that I filled in for each student by hand) .

I went over the math with them, showed them their entries to date on their Excel line* and explained how the curve was running and their place in it at that point.

I still had unbelievable responses in a couple of cases.

1. One student--who solemnly agreed with me that coming to every class from that point on was necessary if she were going to pass--never showed up again, and never dropped the class (I did check with the healthcare folks half-way through the second half of the term, telling them why I was concerned, and to have an eye out for her if she presented any upsetting symptoms...).

I worried that something in her turquoise hair dye might have poisoned her, but later saw her around campus (having changed it to bright pink); never did find out what was going on there. 

2. Another, which saddened me, thought that because she was doing well up to that point, she didn't need to make up a couple of missed Friday quizzes, and dropped from a high B to a C- (with a couple of other low quiz grades thrown in). I asked her a couple times about the quizzes but she said she had papers for another class that were hard and she was going to work on those instead.

At the end, I asked again, and she explained that she didn't think that her average had gone so low, but she understood and saw it to be her own fault.


It didn't usually have quite that effect, though; usually students were glad to know their standing and what they could do to improve.

I'd probably do something similar again.

-=-=-=-
* I kept my own separate grading table in Excel so I could put forumlae and notes in on a second line for each student. Then at the end, I muted those alternate lines and copied the "straight" grades, which I'd formatted from the CMS, to another page, to be uploaded to the CMS grade shell.

[Liquidambar]

At my request, a student sent me his schedule so we could set up a meeting time...

Before 10am also works. I am usually not in my best state in the morning though.

[Caracal]

I always muted it (as per a previous forum suggestion) and did an update at the mid-term of their estimated grade to date in person.

I did that for a few semesters and got numerous comments on evaluations about how "students had no idea" what their grade was. I know people at other institutions who don't put up grades on the CMS at all and don't get any complaints, so I think it is just one of these expectation things.

[Caracal]

At my request, a student sent me his schedule so we could set up a meeting time...

Before 10am also works. I am usually not in my best state in the morning though.

I find this kind of charming in the guilelessness of it. I'm done with my classes on Friday at 2 and usually would have plenty of time to meet with a student then. However, I'm only going to offer this up as a meeting time if we go a couple of rounds of meeting proposals and it turns out there's no other time that would work. I'm certainly not going to write and say "I could meet between 10-11 and 1-2 any day, or after 2 on Friday, but I'd prefer not to because I want to go home and lie on the couch," because nobody cares about my couch time and will ask to meet then if its convenient for them.

[ergative]

At my request, a student sent me his schedule so we could set up a meeting time...

Before 10am also works. I am usually not in my best state in the morning though.

I find this kind of charming in the guilelessness of it. I'm done with my classes on Friday at 2 and usually would have plenty of time to meet with a student then. However, I'm only going to offer this up as a meeting time if we go a couple of rounds of meeting proposals and it turns out there's no other time that would work. I'm certainly not going to write and say "I could meet between 10-11 and 1-2 any day, or after 2 on Friday, but I'd prefer not to because I want to go home and lie on the couch," because nobody cares about my couch time and will ask to meet then if its convenient for them.

Yes, I always make the students propose a time first, and if they don't in their initial email I tell them one time that suits be absolutely best. If that doesn't work for them, I say, they should tell me their availability.

I have a sense that students are shy to start off with meeting times because that makes them feel like they're taking charge of scheduling in some way, and the power relations really should put the professor in charge. Your groggy-before-10am-student would already be in my good graces, even with the phrasing, because they've made it possible to arrange a meeting time in fewer emails, and that's awesome.