Favorite student emails

[the_geneticist]

Got this one late Friday night:

Dear Ms./Mrs.[Geneticist],

Is it possible to receive an extension for the fifth lab worksheet? I have an exam for [other class] on [day after this class], and my lab Is on the [registered day and time]. I do not believe I will be able to finish the lab worksheet within the 24 hour period. I wish to have some time studying for the biochemistry midterm.

Sincerely,
Has No Idea How to Budget Their Time

Fantasy reply:  No. 

Actual reply:

Dear HNIHTBTT,
Thank you for your email.  You always have the option to finish your worksheet during your scheduled lab section.  Also, we do accept late work with a small penalty (see the syllabus for details).  Since you've known about the lab due date and the midterm since the start of the quarter, it's your responsibility to decide how to best use your time.  No, you may not have an extension for your lab worksheet.  Thank you for asking.
Best,
Dr. Geneticist

[kaysixteen]

Given that this sort of overlap exists, what are the  university's rules regarding whether dept x can require such outside of class meetings during regular class hours when student may well have a regularly scheduled class meeting for a class in dept y?

[the_geneticist]

Campus is closed for Veterans' Day on Wednesday.  To keep all of the labs in synch, I scheduled a week off from labs in all of my classes.  It's in the syllabus, I sent an announcement, and the TAs send out emails to remind the students.  But I guess that wasn't quite clear enough for everyone.

Got this one today:

Hello Dr. [Geneticist], my name is [super anxious student] and I just wanted to make sure and confirm that there will be no lab or lab quiz this week? And if so, do we still need to attend lab regardless?

Thank you,
super anxious student

[facepalm]
Really?

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Campus is closed for Veterans' Day on Wednesday.  To keep all of the labs in synch, I scheduled a week off from labs in all of my classes.  It's in the syllabus, I sent an announcement, and the TAs send out emails to remind the students.  But I guess that wasn't quite clear enough for everyone.

Got this one today:

Hello Dr. [Geneticist], my name is [super anxious student] and I just wanted to make sure and confirm that there will be no lab or lab quiz this week? And if so, do we still need to attend lab regardless?

Thank you,
super anxious student

[facepalm]
Really?

Yep. They need to read the syllabus and they never do.

[polly_mer]

Yes, in the specific case you are talking about.   But that was not the main issue of this point, which is what to do with generalized inquiry letters sent to grad school professors, that lacked the sort of decidedly non-first-generation college student knowledge base verbiage.   IOW, classist.

The place to teach the explicit skills needed is middle school and high school.  College can then explicitly teach field norms.

Someone who is literally 10 years behind in socialization near the end of college is going to take an absurd amount of work, especially since I've never met someone that deficient in social norms who isn't also significantly deficient in the hard skills that one learns in college related to the field.

Yes, that's classicist.  That's also reality underlining the need to remediate early instead of letting people just drift along and get further and further behind.  The kid who was being mentored into professional norms starting in high school and then goes to a college that also explicitly mentors has a good shot.  The kid who ends up applying to grad school as someone pitifully unqualified is not going to get into a graduate program that is worth attending.

[kaysixteen]

You are not wrong about the deficits produced by sh*tty k12 education, largely in urban and rural areas.   But that does not mean that colleges (not elite ones, but the bulk of them) could not and should not try to remediate these issues for students who are otherwise bright enough to go there, and would add to the fields they want to study.   Social deficits, such as not knowing how to write a grad school professor, are also clearly and easily remediated.

[larryc]

You are not wrong about the deficits produced by sh*tty k12 education, largely in urban and rural areas.   But that does not mean that colleges (not elite ones, but the bulk of them) could not and should not try to remediate these issues for students who are otherwise bright enough to go there, and would add to the fields they want to study.   Social deficits, such as not knowing how to write a grad school professor, are also clearly and easily remediated.

Amen. I have worked at various open admissions institutions and as a colleague once said our students come farther in four years than any other set of students.

[larryc]

I get emails!

Subject: I will not be able to make class today

Hello professor Cebula,
I will not be able to attend your online lecture today. Fortunately for me, I killed an elk this morning and am doing my best to get done field dressing it before I head out of the woods. I am quite literally on top of a mountain right now in the hopes that I have enough service to send this message. Again, I am sorry for missing your class, I will watch the recording of the lecture tonight once I make it out.I get emails!

Subject: I will not be able to make class today
Hello professor Cebula,
I will not be able to attend your online lecture today. Fortunately for me, I killed an elk this morning and am doing my best to get done field dressing it before I head out of the woods. I am quite literally on top of a mountain right now in the hopes that I have enough service to send this message. Again, I am sorry for missing your class, I will watch the recording of the lecture tonight once I make it out.

[smallcleanrat]

You are not wrong about the deficits produced by sh*tty k12 education, largely in urban and rural areas.   But that does not mean that colleges (not elite ones, but the bulk of them) could not and should not try to remediate these issues for students who are otherwise bright enough to go there, and would add to the fields they want to study.   Social deficits, such as not knowing how to write a grad school professor, are also clearly and easily remediated.

I agree; I've seen it happen with lots of people.

I don't think science.expat had any obligation to send that student a reply. But I do agree that learning professional etiquette can and should be part of the undergrad experience.

The "explicit skills" a k-12 student might be expected to learn wouldn't necessarily prepare them for contacting professors as potential grad students. k-12 prep would teach things like the need to include a greeting, how to succinctly introduce yourself and your purpose for writing, how professional correspondence differs from casual in terms of diction, level of politeness, etc...

I wouldn't find it strange or evidence of a troublesome student if, once they get to college, they need to be informed further about when it is and isn't reasonable to expect a timely reply (or even any reply at all). It's not a *difficult* concept but it may not be obvious to someone relatively new to academia. So I don't see why a smart and serious student willing to pay attention and learn the etiquette should be considered too 'deficient' to be worth socializing if their k-12 education did not make them aware of just how many emails from how many various sources faculty receive and how low in the hierarchy of importance an unsolicited email from a *potential* (not even current) grad student would probably fall. I know my k-12 education didn't include this info.

And lots of young people *are* explicitly advised to do things like send follow-up messages (it shows real interest and initiative!) or make tons of cold-calls to up the odds of getting noticed (which leads to generic messages students don't realize come across as evidence of someone being too lazy to learn anything about the person they are contacting). They may have been told that's how things work in the "professional world". Until they enter that world themselves, how would they have known the advice was bad?

science.expat mentioned setting the student's initial inquiry aside to deal with later, so I assume there was nothing seriously amiss with the *content* of the email. It was specifically the two follow-ups in a short space of time that sank the student's chance of getting a response.

I wasn't totally clear from that post if it was *just* the short time between followups (indicating student expecting a fast response, unaware it's unreasonable to expect this for an unsolicited inquiry email) or that they also didn't take the hint when the first followup didn't get a response or the fact they sent a follow up at all.

science.expat, you did say you set the email aside to look at later. Suppose you weren't able to get around to it as soon as you planned, and student sends their first followup email a month after the initial inquiry. Would this still have been a red flag that this student might turn out to be a real pest, or would this length of time between the student's messages have made the followup more forgivable?

[Langue_doc]

I get emails!

Subject: I will not be able to make class today

Hello professor Cebula,
I will not be able to attend your online lecture today. Fortunately for me, I killed an elk this morning and am doing my best to get done field dressing it before I head out of the woods. I am quite literally on top of a mountain right now in the hopes that I have enough service to send this message. Again, I am sorry for missing your class, I will watch the recording of the lecture tonight once I make it out.I get emails!

Subject: I will not be able to make class today
Hello professor Cebula,
I will not be able to attend your online lecture today. Fortunately for me, I killed an elk this morning and am doing my best to get done field dressing it before I head out of the woods. I am quite literally on top of a mountain right now in the hopes that I have enough service to send this message. Again, I am sorry for missing your class, I will watch the recording of the lecture tonight once I make it out.

Not an email, but I once had a student tell me that he couldn't make it to the next class as he had a court date. I suspect he was looking for an excuse to cancel his court date as he was waiting for me to tell him that a court date was not a valid excuse for missing class. I told the student to get himself to court on the scheduled date/time and not to piss off the judge.

[science.expat]

science.expat, you did say you set the email aside to look at later. Suppose you weren't able to get around to it as soon as you planned, and student sends their first followup email a month after the initial inquiry. Would this still have been a red flag that this student might turn out to be a real pest, or would this length of time between the student's messages have made the followup more forgivable?

Had they sent a follow up a month later I would have seen it as a reminder, looked carefully at the original email, and sent a definitive reply.

SE

[jerseyjay]

Yes, in the specific case you are talking about.   But that was not the main issue of this point, which is what to do with generalized inquiry letters sent to grad school professors, that lacked the sort of decidedly non-first-generation college student knowledge base verbiage.   IOW, classist.

The place to teach the explicit skills needed is middle school and high school.  College can then explicitly teach field norms.

Someone who is literally 10 years behind in socialization near the end of college is going to take an absurd amount of work, especially since I've never met someone that deficient in social norms who isn't also significantly deficient in the hard skills that one learns in college related to the field.

Yes, that's classicist.  That's also reality underlining the need to remediate early instead of letting people just drift along and get further and further behind.  The kid who was being mentored into professional norms starting in high school and then goes to a college that also explicitly mentors has a good shot.  The kid who ends up applying to grad school as someone pitifully unqualified is not going to get into a graduate program that is worth attending.

There seems to be an implicit argument that it is obvious how you are supposed to email a professor in your field in your university in your country to signal interest in postgraduate studies. I have to say, I would have no idea of the correct way to do that--and I have a PhD and twenty years' teaching experience. My guess is that "professional norms" are different in the accounting department, the history department, and perhaps even across the hallway with one of your colleagues--much less at another university or another country. 

I have worked or studied in different companies and different universities and different professions and different industries and different countries. Each has different norms of emailing: do you carbon copy everybody alive; do you write in a formal or informal style; do you address the recipient by first name or title; do you use second or third person; etc., etc. Within my current university, an email to the provost's office is likely to follow different norms than one to the physical plant or the bookstore.

One of the most important "professional norms" that I have learnt is flexibility in regard to these norms. This seems to be a "soft skill" that you have not learnt. Since you are clearly the one in a position of power here, it won't have any negative impact on you. However, should you find yourself in a different situation, it might make you look unprofessional.

[RatGuy]

At my school, students who are are found guilty of academic misconduct by the Dean's Office  are not allowed to drop the class in which the misconduct occurred. A student whose only day of attendance was Aug 24 cheated blatantly on the take-home midterm. He was found guilty by the Dean, who told him not to drop my class. I always assumed that meant a hold on the account, but the student dropped the course anyway. The Dean's Office was alerted, and the Registrar's Office reenrolled the student.

Today's email: a frantic and melodramatic plea to let the student pass anyway. He claims that he's a 5-year senior graduating in December, with a marketing job lined up for January. He admits to the misconduct, and knows that he has a literal zero in the course. But he claims that he will write a final essay (due next Friday) that will "put all other essays to shame" and provide answers on the exam that are "so insightful and brilliant that they will bring you to tears." He contends that perfect scores on those two assignments should allow him to pass the course, even though his final grade will only be a 45%. He also says that if I deny him this opportunity, he promises not to take out his anger, and his parents' disappointment, and his future employer's lost productivity out on me. Finally he says, "and I believe in the Oxford comma."

This one is going in my HOF file.

[smallcleanrat]

But he claims that he will write a final essay (due next Friday) that will "put all other essays to shame" and provide answers on the exam that are "so insightful and brilliant that they will bring you to tears."

Is this style of persuasion how he might have landed that marketing job? Or would this sound just as ridiculous in that field as in any other?

He also says that if I deny him this opportunity, he promises not to take out his anger, and his parents' disappointment, and his future employer's lost productivity out on me.

Well, that's awfully decent of him. How can you refuse to allow someone with such an obvious heart of gold to pass your class?

[the_geneticist]

At my school, students who are are found guilty of academic misconduct by the Dean's Office  are not allowed to drop the class in which the misconduct occurred. A student whose only day of attendance was Aug 24 cheated blatantly on the take-home midterm. He was found guilty by the Dean, who told him not to drop my class. I always assumed that meant a hold on the account, but the student dropped the course anyway. The Dean's Office was alerted, and the Registrar's Office reenrolled the student.

Today's email: a frantic and melodramatic plea to let the student pass anyway. He claims that he's a 5-year senior graduating in December, with a marketing job lined up for January. He admits to the misconduct, and knows that he has a literal zero in the course. But he claims that he will write a final essay (due next Friday) that will "put all other essays to shame" and provide answers on the exam that are "so insightful and brilliant that they will bring you to tears." He contends that perfect scores on those two assignments should allow him to pass the course, even though his final grade will only be a 45%. He also says that if I deny him this opportunity, he promises not to take out his anger, and his parents' disappointment, and his future employer's lost productivity out on me. Finally he says, "and I believe in the Oxford comma."

This one is going in my HOF file.

Wow.  Just wow.
I'd kick that one up the chain of command.