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Colleagues want to publish with me

Started by the-tenure-track-prof, January 08, 2022, 08:28:34 AM

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Ruralguy

Its probably just best to drop the matter unless they bring up something specific and take the lead, that way you don't really have to be wondering when they will take up their end of the work. They either do it, and then involve you, or they don't do it, and you won't care.  try to be nice about it, but as Mleok states, they have nothing to hold over you, and even if you were just inclined to be generous, no need to do that unless they take the lead, otherwise it just hurts you in the end by taking up too much time or thought.

So, if one of them asks "what have you got for me?" Either ask them to reverse that, and show what they have for you, or give it up because you don't have time to be their "post-doc adviser." 

Like I said before, if you all stay, this could be a problem if you choose to do something that might piss them off . And though what Mleok says makes sense, from what you say, OP, it seems that the school doesn't really care about research, and may keep these folks on for some reason or another.  So, best bet is to make research collaboration conditional on them doing initial work and then seeing what you can add later, or not doing it.

larryc

I'd be reluctant to turn them down cold. If they're facing tenure denials who knows what they might do.

Are you familiar with the peer-reviewed journal Syllabus? Basically you publish your syllabus along with a few pages about what makes it a good class, with some footnotes. Maybe coauthor something with them there. https://www.syllabusjournal.org/syllabus/index

As for what they might say after you leave: Fuck 'em. Not your problem.

Ruralguy

I'd rather give them tenure on nothing than on a peer reviewed syllabus, though maybe I'm just ignorant, even though I do some SoTL stuff (in real journals, double blind, three reviewers).

Anyway, just think of a way to be nice about it, but obligates them to get things going. Which is pretty fair if a tenure standard is for them to be independent researchers. Help them, but force them to be independent.

the-tenure-track-prof

I already told the faculty, nicely, who is up for tenure review, that "I think it would be wiser and, due to my health concerns, to do it via emails and added to feel free to send anything to discuss. I hope that I will feel better soon. I informed the other one who tagged along on the meeting, and I did not hear back. The faculty did not even bother to show some concern for my health and can not show even some diplomacy in wanting to be on A publication-- any publication.

Rural guy is correct on that the tenure track will get tenured regardless. It is important to note that this faculty does not do more than the bare minimum. The tenure track faculty also is a year ahead of me and was supposed to go for a tenure review this year. They requested to postpone the tenure review for a year because of anxiety issues using the COVID as an excuse. Since I came on board, this faculty has continued to openly and with total disrespect express the lack and profound disinterest to be involved in any academic activities. This faculty openly talk about wanting to stay at home all the time. This faculty, however, will get tenured because the school and the program have difficulty finding people to hire. I am not concerned that the faculty will not get tenured.

mleok

I think you waste too much time worrying about other people, focus on your own work. Don't let these people live in your mind rent-free.

Ruralguy

Yes, these folks seem to seriously offend you, so perhaps better to avoid interaction unless necessary.
Anyway, you've deferred this into the future and put it into their hands.

the-tenure-track-prof

Thanks. I appreciate the advice and I am glad to say things worked out well. The faculty sent me a message trying to schedule a Zoom meeting. I didn't respond to that nor I attended the faculty meeting because the director of the program told me I can stay home if I am not feeling well (Yay)...
This tenure track faculty is as someone said is a postdoc looking for a mentor, few months before going up for tenure review!. The faculty sent me an email that left me in a state of shock. the email (rephrased said) that they have a lot of questions about writing and presenting and that they did have not had good mentorship. Then telling me that they have only published articles from the dissertation with the chair from my committee." (rephrased).

"Do you publish a paper then present at a conference or do you have to publish and present different stuff?" "I know that sometimes conferences publish abstracts, but I really don't know much."

"Just talk to me like I do not know anything about publishing and presenting. What would you say to someone that is just starting this journey?"




Quote from: Ruralguy on January 10, 2022, 04:51:37 AM
Yes, these folks seem to seriously offend you, so perhaps better to avoid interaction unless necessary.
Anyway, you've deferred this into the future and put it into their hands.

Ruralguy

Sounds like a typical question from a first to third year grad student, not a 5th or 6th year tenure track faculty member.

Nonetheless, if they have questions like that, I suppose it doesn't hurt to answer. I don't think that obligates you to anything, but limit the time on such things to something like 30 minutes (if its just open ended questions, it shouldn't be allowed to take up too much time). Don't let these folks become so enmeshed with you that by default, you are telling them what to do for a paper ( I mean details, not just "oh for this field, you should be submitting to a good journal at least X times per year").

the-tenure-track-prof

Yes. I was shocked by the faculty`s email!
I will not sit down with this faculty anymore since I told this faculty that "let`s do it via emails". The faculty responded with this email.
I am not considering addressing questions at the mentorship level because I know this faculty is desperate and lazy too.
Here is what I am considering to say (rough version):

"I can give you a short answer that papers are the by-product of long-term research work, and thus it produces dozens of papers as many scholars do.
In response to your other questions, this is a mentor-mentee conversation, and I am not allowed in my capacity as a junior faculty to do that. I would suggest that you look for a mentor. Your mentor at X university (our university) can be one resource. Another source is your dissertation chair, who can have some good advice from someone at the level of a mentor who got to know your research work. As a colleague, I hope this advice helps!
I was expecting some content-related questions that I could contribute to with scientific experience and methodology to help as a colleague. Best of luck!"

the-tenure-track-prof

The other option is not to respond to the email at all. This faculty is desperate because they never worked on research during the past 3 and a half years. This faculty is a 4th-year faculty who requested postponing the tenure review and still did not invest in development of a research agenda.

Ruralguy

Give it minimal thought, if any.  I think you should reply, but don't get into daily conversations. Don't get into being "allowed" to be a mentor (that sounds odd). Just  say that first part and then recommend they talk to their dissertation adviser or someone else familiar with their research. It seems to me that you are done after that, other than answering an occasional brief question. 

Ancient Fellow

Quote from: mleok on January 10, 2022, 12:58:52 AM
I think you waste too much time worrying about other people, focus on your own work. Don't let these people live in your mind rent-free.

Mleok's quote made me laugh out loud, but it's actually a very good perspective on what could be an ongoing aggravation.

O.P., I think your current dilemma could be resolved by referring them to one of the (less obnoxious) 'writing habits for academics' websites out there. It's something constructive, but you still avoid being the one to take on their problems. Perhaps they can then pester the 'writing website' owners

Good luck with this one.