NBC News: Battling Low Enrollment Through Retention

[Wahoo Redux]

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my  We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff.

My school spends far more on mental health services than on the climbing wall. That may be the expense that is growing fastest and putting pressure on tuition.

I'd really like to know the ROI for that. Specifically, are there a lot of students, who with some help, can succeed, or are a large proportion of those students ones who will always struggle, with many of them  ultimately dropping out or failing anyway?

Just remember that mental health is much more than just retention; it has a bigger purpose.  My last school had an Afghanistan war vet, a really good guy, who suffered from severe PTSD and would have dangerous breakdowns during the day.  I was lucky that we had counselors that I could walk him to when he had a meltdown in the writing center where I was coordinator.

[dismalist]

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my  We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff.

My school spends far more on mental health services than on the climbing wall. That may be the expense that is growing fastest and putting pressure on tuition.

I'd really like to know the ROI for that. Specifically, are there a lot of students, who with some help, can succeed, or are a large proportion of those students ones who will always struggle, with many of them  ultimately dropping out or failing anyway?

Just remember that mental health is much more than just retention; it has a bigger purpose.  My last school had an Afghanistan war vet, a really good guy, who suffered from severe PTSD and would have dangerous breakdowns during the day.  I was lucky that we had counselors that I could walk him to when he had a meltdown in the writing center where I was coordinator.

I sure hope the money spent on mental health services by universities is paid for by student health insurance. Otherwise, universities would be charities.

[marshwiggle]

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my  We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff.

My school spends far more on mental health services than on the climbing wall. That may be the expense that is growing fastest and putting pressure on tuition.

I'd really like to know the ROI for that. Specifically, are there a lot of students, who with some help, can succeed, or are a large proportion of those students ones who will always struggle, with many of them  ultimately dropping out or failing anyway?

Just remember that mental health is much more than just retention; it has a bigger purpose.  My last school had an Afghanistan war vet, a really good guy, who suffered from severe PTSD and would have dangerous breakdowns during the day.  I was lucky that we had counselors that I could walk him to when he had a meltdown in the writing center where I was coordinator.

I sure hope the money spent on mental health services by universities is paid for by student health insurance. Otherwise, universities would be charities.

The issue I see is the same one for students who have some sort of family or health emergency during the term and ask for accommodations. The reality is that, depending on the severity of the situation,  their best outcome requires pausing school and maybe taking a term or two off to deal with the acute problem, after which they may be able to come back and focus. Given that students without those kinds of problems find school challenging, we're not doing them any favours if we "help them" stay in school but essentially doom them to poor academic performance because they are barely able to keep up even with the help.

[Hibush]

Otherwise, universities would be charities.

We are very charitable!

[mamselle]

Though I speak with human and angelic tongues, but have not charity...

M.

[dismalist]

Though I speak with human and angelic tongues, but have not charity...

M.

Otherwise, universities would be charities.

We are very charitable!

Where others see charity, I see self-interest. :-)

Speaking with Marshy,

we're not doing them any favours if we "help them" stay in school but essentially doom them to poor academic performance because they are barely able to keep up even with the help.

And take on more debt. This may of course help some students, but it definitely helps universities.

[Hibush]

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my  We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff.

My school spends far more on mental health services than on the climbing wall. That may be the expense that is growing fastest and putting pressure on tuition.

I'd really like to know the ROI for that. Specifically, are there a lot of students, who with some help, can succeed, or are a large proportion of those students ones who will always struggle, with many of them  ultimately dropping out or failing anyway?

I would like to know that too, but am not privy to either the return or the investment details. I'm fortunate to be at a school where all the matriculating students appear to be amply capable of finishing. My impression is that a substantial proportion go in for a couple of visits to get their bearings or coaching or something. That's not so expensive. But what of the ones who really start to lose it, and need tens of thousands in mental health services (even if insurance pays for a lot). There must be a point at which the student needs to be counseled to take an indefinite leave. Parents likely have varied reactions to such a recommendation, because they have an ROI in mind as well.

[apl68]

I wish Polly Mere was here.  Her caustic insights were combative, for sure, but very good.

That's a pretty good description of polly's contribution at its best.

[mahagonny]

Lower enrollment will be the new normal. Some schools will close. The ones that are left will have the students. You can't sustain the current number of students completing college with the combined effects of lower birth rate, cultural turmoil and polarization, inflation. Sorry I can't be more upbeat. But I find not facing reality even more depressing than facing a difficult reality.

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my students drop out and it is very rarely for academic reasons. It is almost always money or mental health. We have one retention specialist and when I've sent the money students to this person, the response has been to tell the students to take out more loans (face palm). We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff. And, to mahagonny's point, a lot of the depressed students are LGBTQ+, students of color, neurologically atypical - they are diverse. So, I think that properly funded and staffed DEI offices with real mandates and initiatives work wonders. It's just that those are rare.

I had student drop out this semester in the middle for mental health reasons. White male. I guess the diversity staff couldn't figure out how to make things work out for him.

ETA: I would be interested in any studies that delve into the effects on people's mental health from living in a society that has decided to hate itself and its history. I think there is some news coming that will shock some people.

I wish Polly Mere was here.  Her caustic insights were combative, for sure, but very good.

That's a pretty good description of polly's contribution at its best.

I have a pretty good hunch that Polly_Mer, whoever and wherever she is, is not thrilled with the febrile social justice activism that has been grabbing our old USA by the lapels of its sport jacket and shouting in its face. So it should not be surprising that she hangs out less here.

[mahagonny]

Where others see charity, I see self-interest. :-)

Tenure, in particular, is the ultimate merging of self-interest of a select elite group with the common good. 'Nothing adequate or right will ever happen without all of the benefits for tenure.' And then the real coup de grâs, 'you can't oppose tenure. You can only fail to understand how it works.'

Charity: faculty who work because the want to 'give back to the community.'

ETA: So (continuing from previous post) if you're sitting there at your keypad missing Polly's ability to penetrate an issue, why not try being less of a cookie-cutter academic liberal instead of wondering when she'll come back?

[Hibush]

It is definitely easier to cut the fat (~coup de grâs) without tenure. ;-)

I too am interested in the psychological state of those who are finding that virtue requires self-loathing. Back in the olden days, we used to denounce the bad actors who most opposed our ideal. Recently, my fellow lefties have instead been denouncing allies who are a tiny step less lefty. But the new twist is to denounce your own group. The first transition leads to group disorganization and group disempowerment while retaining individual righteousness. The second one must have deeper effects at the individual level. 

[Wahoo Redux]

my fellow lefties have instead been denouncing allies who are a tiny step less lefty.

Sacrilege! How dare you denounce the denouncers!  The Gulag awaits!!

BTW, are you sure you are on the right thread?

[downer]

I thought liberal guilt had been a thing for a long time. There's even an academic article on 'A Short History of Liberal Guilt.'

Similarly for leftist infighting. Different shades of marxists were always at each other's throats.

I've long admired the right's ability to stand together and put aside differences in their goal of crushing the poor.

[marshwiggle]

I've long admired the right's ability to stand together and put aside differences in their goal of crushing the poor.

As I believe George Orwell noted, it isn't that people on the left love the poor; it's that they hate the rich.

[Wahoo Redux]

I've long admired the right's ability to stand together and put aside differences in their goal of crushing the poor.

I thought John McCain would be inviolable and untouchable.

Then Fat Donny came along.

Now the conservatives are cannibalizing each other like piranha.  It's fun to watch.