NBC News: Battling Low Enrollment Through Retention

[smallcleanrat]

That article doesn't even mention depression...

And is the author actually trying to argue at the end that a post-pandemic decrease in desire to have children indicates a belief that Americans (and humans in general) are no good? Because if you believed Americans/humans are good, you would want to personally make more of them?

[mahagonny]

The Washington Examiner is hardly an objective resource, M.

Where are you on extending your own therapy?

This is you, arousing my pity:

We work at a place like FSU without the sun and palm trees.  We have around a 33% graduation rate.  Like Ratguy, no one I know has any idea why our students drop out. 


Still, our school is in peril.  We are deflating.  Our admin certainly doesn't seem to know what to do and neither does the union. 

I wish Polly Mere was here.  Her caustic insights were combative, for sure, but very good.

I and others try to help, and you make wisecracks.

[mahagonny]

And is the author actually trying to argue at the end that a post-pandemic decrease in desire to have children indicates a belief that Americans (and humans in general) are no good? Because if you believed Americans/humans are good, you would want to personally make more of them?

He doesn't claim to have proof. He poses the question.

Speaking for me, I've never had to look for a reason to desire children. Maybe it's because nature, or God maybe, provided me with the urge for a romantic companion that naturally led us in the direction of parenthood. why stand in the way of progress. However, if I had believed that all white people somehow, through myriad undetectable but efficacious ways, get programmed to oppress others by the age of three, and all not-white people (except Asians, Nicaraguan immigrants, et al, who somehow outperform and out-earn their oppressors) are doomed to a life of stifled freedom and zero personal agency or self-actualizing then I would taken pains not to have children, either with a 'white' partner or with a "BIPOC" partner. I could not willfully bring a person into that situation. And that is why I no longer identify as a democrat. The fact that we did bring a child into the world, and are happy that we did, proves that we don't buy the mass despair that the democrats are selling. My wife is a conservative too, and will soon figure out that she is, I predict.
So he has identified a possibility that must be given attention.

I don't know how a pandemic should affect birth rates or how that happens, historically. It does seem that when people can't go to work they would be home more and would need things to do...then again, regardless of how a pandemic affects sexual activity and birth rates, democrats, being more likely than republicans to be Godless, probably feel less responsibility to do their share of populating the planet, or don't think they have a share. They are worried about climate change though.

That article doesn't even mention depression...

It does. If you live in a country that you think so little of that you would not participate in defending it from external threats, yet are not taking action to relocate yourself to country you like better, you're probably depressed.

[Wahoo Redux]

I and others try to help, and you make wisecracks.

It was not a wisecrack, my friend. 

You are in a crisis of some sort.

Just think about it.

[mahagonny]

You don't have to get personal. You can set me on 'ignore' if it makes it easier. An internet forum is not yours to control unless it's your own creation.
Some of us have had mental health issues. If we want help we'll ask for it. It's not cool to point fingers.
FYI - I do not currently have need of a therapist, thanks to a daily dose of medication that is well designed to make the company of liberals and their debunked theories less onerous. Technically it's an antidepressant.
America is in crisis. Higher education is too. Emotions run high.
A wahoo is a speedy swimming fish that evades capture with the bony flesh in its mouth. Enjoy your freedom.
My friend.

[Anon1787]

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my  We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff.

My school spends far more on mental health services than on the climbing wall. That may be the expense that is growing fastest and putting pressure on tuition.

I'd really like to know the ROI for that. Specifically, are there a lot of students, who with some help, can succeed, or are a large proportion of those students ones who will always struggle, with many of them  ultimately dropping out or failing anyway?

Just remember that mental health is much more than just retention; it has a bigger purpose.  My last school had an Afghanistan war vet, a really good guy, who suffered from severe PTSD and would have dangerous breakdowns during the day.  I was lucky that we had counselors that I could walk him to when he had a meltdown in the writing center where I was coordinator.

I sure hope the money spent on mental health services by universities is paid for by student health insurance. Otherwise, universities would be charities.

I echo that last sentiment. I'm quite skeptical of universities trying to be social welfare conglomerates with adjunct departments of health and human services rather than focusing on their core mission.

[Wahoo Redux]

I'm quite skeptical of universities trying to be social welfare conglomerates with adjunct departments of health and human services rather than focusing on their core mission.

In theory I agree, but again, when you, as the responsible adult in the room, run into a serious problem it is awfully good to have resources.  Having social welfare at your disposal is a better option than calling the police.

[Hibush]

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my  We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff.

My school spends far more on mental health services than on the climbing wall. That may be the expense that is growing fastest and putting pressure on tuition.

I'd really like to know the ROI for that. Specifically, are there a lot of students, who with some help, can succeed, or are a large proportion of those students ones who will always struggle, with many of them  ultimately dropping out or failing anyway?

Just remember that mental health is much more than just retention; it has a bigger purpose.  My last school had an Afghanistan war vet, a really good guy, who suffered from severe PTSD and would have dangerous breakdowns during the day.  I was lucky that we had counselors that I could walk him to when he had a meltdown in the writing center where I was coordinator.

I sure hope the money spent on mental health services by universities is paid for by student health insurance. Otherwise, universities would be charities.

I echo that last sentiment. I'm quite skeptical of universities trying to be social welfare conglomerates with adjunct departments of health and human services rather than focusing on their core mission.

It would be nice if the county health department could cover those responsibilites, but they can't. People seem to get agitated when the students off themselves, so your prinicpled stand kind of fall by the wayside in that situation. What do you say to the parents and the classmates?

[dismalist]

I work at a much smaller private school, so I do tend to know why my  We lose a lot of the mental health students, in part because their grades start tanking and that only worsens their depression, anxiety, etc.
We're all about retention now - I fill out all kinds of reports on the students - but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, especially because we don't have nearly enough mental health staff.

My school spends far more on mental health services than on the climbing wall. That may be the expense that is growing fastest and putting pressure on tuition.

I'd really like to know the ROI for that. Specifically, are there a lot of students, who with some help, can succeed, or are a large proportion of those students ones who will always struggle, with many of them  ultimately dropping out or failing anyway?

Just remember that mental health is much more than just retention; it has a bigger purpose.  My last school had an Afghanistan war vet, a really good guy, who suffered from severe PTSD and would have dangerous breakdowns during the day.  I was lucky that we had counselors that I could walk him to when he had a meltdown in the writing center where I was coordinator.

I sure hope the money spent on mental health services by universities is paid for by student health insurance. Otherwise, universities would be charities.

I echo that last sentiment. I'm quite skeptical of universities trying to be social welfare conglomerates with adjunct departments of health and human services rather than focusing on their core mission.

It would be nice if the county health department could cover those responsibilites, but they can't. People seem to get agitated when the students off themselves, so your prinicpled stand kind of fall by the wayside in that situation. What do you say to the parents and the classmates?

Let the colleges require health insurance.

Colleges can form good, healthy pools with low insurance rates. However, please publicize health insurance rates separately from tuition, otherwise it's just bundling, like sports.

[mahagonny]

"The highest suicide rates (per 100,000) in the US are among white males (25.4), followed by Native American/Alaska Natives (14.6), and Black males (12.6)."

This (italic) might be surprising considering we are always being told that it is so difficult and painful to be black and so cushy and easy to be white.

"Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death for 15 to 24 year old Americans."

source: https://save.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

[marshwiggle]

I'm quite skeptical of universities trying to be social welfare conglomerates with adjunct departments of health and human services rather than focusing on their core mission.

In theory I agree, but again, when you, as the responsible adult in the room, run into a serious problem it is awfully good to have resources.  Having social welfare at your disposal is a better option than calling the police.

The point is not whether those services should be available to those that need them, but whether the institution should devote resources to duplicate services which are offered by other organizations who can do it better because they do it at a greater scale. Should campuses have their own fire departments? Should they have medical services including outpatient surgery? Should they have seniors residences for retired faculty?

The smaller the campus, the more ridiculous it becomes to set aside resources to provide a mediocre version of a service to a tiny number of students which could be better provided by an external agency which has the resources and infrastructure and mandate already.

[Cheerful]

People seem to get agitated when the students off themselves, so your prinicpled stand kind of fall by the wayside in that situation.

That language is harsh and offensive.  These are students who died by suicide.  Please re-think how you talk about suicide.  This is highly sensitive and important.  I can only surmise that you have no direct experience with being affected by such a massive tragedy among one or more loved ones, the impact of which never goes away.  The more sensitive term these days is "died by suicide."  Thank you.

[Wahoo Redux]

I'm quite skeptical of universities trying to be social welfare conglomerates with adjunct departments of health and human services rather than focusing on their core mission.

In theory I agree, but again, when you, as the responsible adult in the room, run into a serious problem it is awfully good to have resources.  Having social welfare at your disposal is a better option than calling the police.

The point is not whether those services should be available to those that need them, but whether the institution should devote resources to duplicate services which are offered by other organizations who can do it better because they do it at a greater scale. Should campuses have their own fire departments? Should they have medical services including outpatient surgery? Should they have seniors residences for retired faculty?

The smaller the campus, the more ridiculous it becomes to set aside resources to provide a mediocre version of a service to a tiny number of students which could be better provided by an external agency which has the resources and infrastructure and mandate already.

I understand the point.

My point was that I actually had resources on campus during an emergency.  Literally.  It has happened twice in my time with two different students.  I am surprised there are not more stories like mine.  And I don't think it is a "tiny number of students" that need serious help.

Is it worth the expense when the core mission of so many schools are contracting, including my own?  I dunno.  But don't minimize the importance of campus mental health either.  These are serious matters dealing with students' lives, after all. 

[Puget]

I'm quite skeptical of universities trying to be social welfare conglomerates with adjunct departments of health and human services rather than focusing on their core mission.

In theory I agree, but again, when you, as the responsible adult in the room, run into a serious problem it is awfully good to have resources.  Having social welfare at your disposal is a better option than calling the police.

The point is not whether those services should be available to those that need them, but whether the institution should devote resources to duplicate services which are offered by other organizations who can do it better because they do it at a greater scale. Should campuses have their own fire departments? Should they have medical services including outpatient surgery? Should they have seniors residences for retired faculty?

The smaller the campus, the more ridiculous it becomes to set aside resources to provide a mediocre version of a service to a tiny number of students which could be better provided by an external agency which has the resources and infrastructure and mandate already.

I understand the point.

My point was that I actually had resources on campus during an emergency.  Literally.  It has happened twice in my time with two different students.  I am surprised there are not more stories like mine.  And I don't think it is a "tiny number of students" that need serious help.

Is it worth the expense when the core mission of so many schools are contracting, including my own?  I dunno.  But don't minimize the importance of campus mental health either.  These are serious matters dealing with students' lives, after all.

Most (at least larger) campuses have a health services (including EMT services in some cases), and their own police force, among many other services, because these are essential services to provide on campus for fast response times and accessibility to students. Mental health services are no different than other health services in this respect-- there should be parity between them. And to tie this back to the original topic of the thread, research shows that more than 60% of students who drop out do so due to mental health problems, so even if you only care about retention this is important.

The comparison to things like outpatient surgery and retirement homes is nonsensical as these are not things where fast response times and accessibility to students is critical. (Though some campuses have indeed added affiliated retirement housing-- this seems like a win-win with revenue for the university and access to classes and cultural events for the retirees. And of course there are university hospitals.)

[dismalist]

...research shows that more than 60% of students who drop out do so due to mental health problems, so even if you only care about retention this is important.

I can't find a source for the 60% number. However, I have found this https://www.thinkimpact.com/college-dropout-rates/

They say 3% of dropouts are due to mental health problems, but it's worth looking at the whole thing.

Unsurprisingly, the least selective places have the highest dropout rates. Therefore, lower the admissions rate to increase the retention rate.