Should Universities Have Mental Health Facilities

[mamselle]

ETA: If there had been no mental health faculty on campus, Mamselle would have escorted the student to an emergency room. I think just about any of us would.

Except I don't own a car, and the nearest hospital in each case was over a mile away.

I doubt if I could have gotten an hysterical student to walk that far with me through the urban landscape without bolting, or worse.

M.

[dismalist]

All the pro arguments put forth apply as well to places of work, housing complexes, ski resorts, cruise ships, and what not. Let's put mental health treatment facilities in all those places, too.

Require health insurance of students to finance whatever service is provided and be done with it.

[Puget]

ETA: If there had been no mental health faculty on campus, Mamselle would have escorted the student to an emergency room. I think just about any of us would.

Except I don't own a car, and the nearest hospital in each case was over a mile away.

I doubt if I could have gotten an hysterical student to walk that far with me through the urban landscape without bolting, or worse.

M.

Plus ERs are  generally very bad places for getting mental health treatment. Going to the ER is a last resort if someone is a real threat to themselves or others. Many hospitals don't have psych beds anymore, and there is a critical shortage of psych beds in general. The consequence of taking someone to the ER would often be that they left in a hallway for an extended period of time, because there is no place to send them. They are not going to get any real treatment there, and that experience can make things much worse.

If a student needs in-patient care, the counseling center staff can help find a placement for them. But most students in need of urgent care do not require hospitalization. They just require a therapist to talk with the student and make a plan for ongoing treatment.

[Wahoo Redux]

All the pro arguments put forth apply as well to places of work, housing complexes, ski resorts, cruise ships, and what not. Let's put mental health treatment facilities in all those places, too.

Require health insurance of students to finance whatever service is provided and be done with it.

I am somewhat agnostic on the subject, since our slowly dying uni only has vestigial services and whatever money we spend means more of us will be out of jobs, but you realize that your analogy above mostly concerns short term accommodations and none are the encompassing lifestyle found on a college campus.

And as someone who has seen severe mental illness in my immediate family without real help found in the community...well...

Let's not pretend health services are like convenience stores on every corner either.

[dismalist]

All the pro arguments put forth apply as well to places of work, housing complexes, ski resorts, cruise ships, and what not. Let's put mental health treatment facilities in all those places, too.

Require health insurance of students to finance whatever service is provided and be done with it.

I am somewhat agnostic on the subject, since our slowly dying uni only has vestigial services and whatever money we spend means more of us will be out of jobs, but you realize that your analogy above mostly concerns short term accommodations and none are the encompassing lifestyle found on a college campus.

And as someone who has seen severe mental illness in my immediate family without real help found in the community...well...

Let's not pretend health services are like convenience stores on every corner either.

There are now. They're called Urgent Care Clinics.

No reason the local Clinic can't be staffed with a mental health care social worker. Finance him or her through student required health insurance, not student borrowing nor government subsidies made in the name of education.

[marshwiggle]

All the pro arguments put forth apply as well to places of work, housing complexes, ski resorts, cruise ships, and what not. Let's put mental health treatment facilities in all those places, too.

Require health insurance of students to finance whatever service is provided and be done with it.

I am somewhat agnostic on the subject, since our slowly dying uni only has vestigial services and whatever money we spend means more of us will be out of jobs, but you realize that your analogy above mostly concerns short term accommodations and none are the encompassing lifestyle found on a college campus.

And as someone who has seen severe mental illness in my immediate family without real help found in the community...well...

Let's not pretend health services are like convenience stores on every corner either.

This is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. The lack of community mental health services may be blamed on a lack of need, which is to some extent caused by various organizations having their own "in-house" mental health services. It's like universities where math departments have trouble getting support to hire faculty to teach statistics, which the admin claims is due to low demand. However, various departments in STEM, business, social sciences, etc. offer their own flavours of statistics (sometimes called things like "research methods") which would collectively easily justify a full-time statistician. (With the fragmented offerings, all of the people teaching their own versions of statistics will have a limited amount of actual statistics training, in contrast to the statistician who specializes in it.)

[dismalist]

Mercy, people, do it! Tell me how much of it and how it's going to be paid for.

[Puget]

All the pro arguments put forth apply as well to places of work, housing complexes, ski resorts, cruise ships, and what not. Let's put mental health treatment facilities in all those places, too.

Require health insurance of students to finance whatever service is provided and be done with it.

I am somewhat agnostic on the subject, since our slowly dying uni only has vestigial services and whatever money we spend means more of us will be out of jobs, but you realize that your analogy above mostly concerns short term accommodations and none are the encompassing lifestyle found on a college campus.

And as someone who has seen severe mental illness in my immediate family without real help found in the community...well...

Let's not pretend health services are like convenience stores on every corner either.

This is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. The lack of community mental health services may be blamed on a lack of need, which is to some extent caused by various organizations having their own "in-house" mental health services. It's like universities where math departments have trouble getting support to hire faculty to teach statistics, which the admin claims is due to low demand. However, various departments in STEM, business, social sciences, etc. offer their own flavours of statistics (sometimes called things like "research methods") which would collectively easily justify a full-time statistician. (With the fragmented offerings, all of the people teaching their own versions of statistics will have a limited amount of actual statistics training, in contrast to the statistician who specializes in it.)

This is just silly-- This is not how the economy of mental health services works. There is plenty of demand for services now. People aren't building community mental health centers on every corner because first, they won't make money doing so-- insurance coverage is limited and payments are low. See my earlier comment about many therapists not even taking insurance. Second, there literally aren't enough clinicians currently. It takes years to train more, so this is not a quick fix.

Again, you keep asserting stuff that shows you have zero understanding of mental health services. I'm an actual psychologist who studies such things, but go ahead and persist in demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect-- I'm done responding.

[mahagonny]

ETA: If there had been no mental health faculty on campus, Mamselle would have escorted the student to an emergency room. I think just about any of us would.

Except I don't own a car, and the nearest hospital in each case was over a mile away.

I doubt if I could have gotten an hysterical student to walk that far with me through the urban landscape without bolting, or worse.

M.

Plus ERs are  generally very bad places for getting mental health treatment.

This is true, come to think of it. I know from personal experience.  Their responsibility begins and ends with the question 'is this person going to kill himself today?' If they decide 'no' you're out on the street with nothing to show for it except a lost day.

some therapists are horrible too. Sometimes a friend is better.

Here is some validation for what I've been haranguing about:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-10-healthy-men-epidemic-white-male.html

"The Inconvenient Truth

"So why aren't we getting the full story behind the epidemic of suicides? There are a number of factors, chief among them is the fact that reporting the truth about who's committing suicide would require acknowledging that the contemporary narrative—in which men in general and white men in particular are a universally privileged class and have no legitimate problems—is false. Ignoring the very real issues facing men in this country and continuing to tell men that they should be stoic, that their problems aren't as big as everyone else's, and to never ask for help is killing people. Tens of thousands every year."

And as an example of the blind spot from your garden variety left-wing news outlet that is incapable of publishing a sentence about white men without the word 'privilege' included, here is Huffpost struggling mightily to understand:

"While white men certainly enjoy privileges that come with their gender and skin color, they are especially vulnerable the debilitating effects of stress-related depression."

and true to form, succeeds in blaming white men for their depression and stoking resentment while casting themselves as sympathetic:

"In a way, the study hits on a sticky subject. Depression is a serious and often debilitating mental health condition, and white men who are suffering from depression should be supported, not stigmatized.
On the other hand, the strong association between a small number of stressful life events and depression among white men speaks volumes about white privilege. The world treats white men well -- so well, in fact, that infrequent negative life circumstances mentally harm them."
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-men-less-stress-more-depression_n_55f1ba36e4b03784e278576e

What will eventually come out is news outlets like Huffpost and higher education itself are the problem. They believe white men are not entitled to stress and depression. When enrollment drops they then have a fit, because it's a problem for them.

Progress will come not from the higher education culture itself, but from people who repudiate it. Higher education culture is its own problem, and them getting dealt some severe blows may end up curing a lot of ills.

[dismalist]

There is plenty of demand for services now.

There is always plenty of demand for anything at a zero price.

How's this gonna be paid for?

[Hibush]

There is plenty of demand for services now.

There is always plenty of demand for anything at a zero price.

How's this gonna be paid for?

I think ours paid by a mix of tuition and student health insurance, plus the state kicking in for facilities. Parents probably pick up a lot of additional treatment.

[dismalist]

There is plenty of demand for services now.

There is always plenty of demand for anything at a zero price.

How's this gonna be paid for?

I think ours paid by a mix of tuition and student health insurance, plus the state kicking in for facilities. Parents probably pick up a lot of additional treatment.

As I've held, paying through required student insurance is great. University can figure out the terms. Anything else, well ... .

[Wahoo Redux]

Mercy, people, do it! Tell me how much of it and how it's going to be paid for.

Again, I am not saying yay or nay, but it IS being paid for.

And NOT paying for mental health services is also very, very expensive.

[Wahoo Redux]

Let's not pretend health services are like convenience stores on every corner either.

There are now. They're called Urgent Care Clinics.

Uh huh.

Have you ever dealt with someone with the severe, dangerous, pervasive versions of depression, bi-polar, borderline, self-esteem, and addiction illnesses?  Ever had an already mentally ill family member get addicted to meth?

You think you can treat someone like that in an Urgent Care Clinic?

Please dismalist, I understand the conservative bent against a "nanny state" (and there is some logic in this) but don't say silly things either.

[dismalist]

Let's not pretend health services are like convenience stores on every corner either.

There are now. They're called Urgent Care Clinics.

Uh huh.

Have you ever dealt with someone with the severe, dangerous, pervasive versions of depression, bi-polar, borderline, self-esteem, and addiction illnesses?  Ever had an already mentally ill family member get addicted to meth?

You think you can treat someone like that in an Urgent Care Clinic?

Please dismalist, I understand the conservative bent against a "nanny state" (and there is some logic in this) but don't say silly things either.

No, no, no, that's all part of the question. What is the question?

--College students should have emergency health services provided by somebody? Yes. Walk in clinics. Make financing deals with local Urgent Care, through required student health insurance.

--Long term care, provided by colleges? Financed through student debt? Taxpayers, under the guise of education spending? Hell no. Send the kids home and let their insurance take care of them.

We're talking health care, not education. Nothing to do with colleges.

Just another bundling strategy.