Florida's rejection of math textbooks "due" to CRT

[Wahoo Redux]

But the "culture war crap" is there in the first place because the "educators" threw in all kinds of stuff with no pedagogical value for the sake of ideology.

Education wonks are some of the worst for trying to impose social engineering goals on society at the expense of actual education.

Basically anything prescriptive is removed in favour of vague open-ended approaches to obscure the gap between students who are figuring it out and students who are struggling. In principle identifying struggling students is vitally important in order to give them more help, and having established processes for them to follow will help them succeed. But much of the emphasis has shifted to trying to raise their self-esteem without raising their competence.

Back up anything you've posted there, Marshy.  Prove what you post.  I dare'ya.

Because what you just posted sounds a lot like it came right out of the Radical Conservative Playbook.

[marshwiggle]

Because what you just posted sounds a lot like it came right out of the Radical Conservative Playbook.

This isn't "radical conservative" in the least. There have been discussions in the news about the "problem" that students in French immersion have a higher average than students in "normal" classes. (Not surprising, given that the engaged parents are more likely to put their kids in more challenging programs.)

Those French immersion parents are definitely a right-wing bunch; you know how popular second languages are with those radical conservatives.

[Wahoo Redux]

Because what you just posted sounds a lot like it came right out of the Radical Conservative Playbook.

This isn't "radical conservative" in the least. There have been discussions in the news about the "problem" that students in French immersion have a higher average than students in "normal" classes. (Not surprising, given that the engaged parents are more likely to put their kids in more challenging programs.)

Those French immersion parents are definitely a right-wing bunch; you know how popular second languages are with those radical conservatives.

Not the issue you opined about.

You still have not backed up a single thing you posted.

[marshwiggle]

Because what you just posted sounds a lot like it came right out of the Radical Conservative Playbook.

This isn't "radical conservative" in the least. There have been discussions in the news about the "problem" that students in French immersion have a higher average than students in "normal" classes. (Not surprising, given that the engaged parents are more likely to put their kids in more challenging programs.)

Those French immersion parents are definitely a right-wing bunch; you know how popular second languages are with those radical conservatives.

Not the issue you opined about.

You still have not backed up a single thing you posted.

Four things you need to know about the new reading wars

"The fact is that most kids can learn to read with little or no phonics," Shanahan said. Indeed, many kids figure out how to read on their own before reading instruction even begins at school. However, a minority of students won't learn to read without phonics and many students would read significantly worse without phonics.

The best argument for phonics is that no one is harmed by it and a large subset of students is helped by receiving explicit phonics instruction from kindergarten through second grade.

[jimbogumbo]

Parents almost always say there are problems, but not at their school. It was a result year after year in a survey conducted by an educational organization (Phi Delta Kappa) housed at Indiana University, and is still tue in today's culture wars: https://www.npr.org/2022/04/29/1094782769/parent-poll-school-culture-wars

[Wahoo Redux]

Because what you just posted sounds a lot like it came right out of the Radical Conservative Playbook.

This isn't "radical conservative" in the least. There have been discussions in the news about the "problem" that students in French immersion have a higher average than students in "normal" classes. (Not surprising, given that the engaged parents are more likely to put their kids in more challenging programs.)

Those French immersion parents are definitely a right-wing bunch; you know how popular second languages are with those radical conservatives.

Not the issue you opined about.

You still have not backed up a single thing you posted.

Four things you need to know about the new reading wars

"The fact is that most kids can learn to read with little or no phonics," Shanahan said. Indeed, many kids figure out how to read on their own before reading instruction even begins at school. However, a minority of students won't learn to read without phonics and many students would read significantly worse without phonics.

The best argument for phonics is that no one is harmed by it and a large subset of students is helped by receiving explicit phonics instruction from kindergarten through second grade.

No, Marshy.

This:

But the "culture war crap" is there in the first place because the "educators" threw in all kinds of stuff with no pedagogical value for the sake of ideology.

Education wonks are some of the worst for trying to impose social engineering goals on society at the expense of actual education.

Basically anything prescriptive is removed in favour of vague open-ended approaches to obscure the gap between students who are figuring it out and students who are struggling. In principle identifying struggling students is vitally important in order to give them more help, and having established processes for them to follow will help them succeed. But much of the emphasis has shifted to trying to raise their self-esteem without raising their competence.

[ciao_yall]

It's a bit off topic, but I think the more we can make math more practical and relevant to students the more they will find their way to understanding. One of the issues we have had at our place is that students come into upper division Bio, Econ, Psychometrics and other quant lit courses and are just lost because the MATH prefix courses they are required to take are divorced from and not preparing them for the kinds of numeracy they actually need. I recognize the difference between the Angelou example and Biostats, but an emphasis on numeracy and quantitative literacy in context does serve students well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-keep-students-in-stem-fields-lets-weed-out-the-weed-out-math-classes/

Yes. Ish.

It's a lot easier to have a general math class that works for a lot of different majors so students build the broader skills. You can schedule multiple sections at various times.

Then, when they get into their bio, econ, etc sections, they can focus on applying those skills and learning the content of the class than trying to learn the math and the content at the same time.

The content instructors want to teach content, not math. That doesn't mean they shouldn't expect to review some math from time to time, still, if you are trying to explain differential calculus from the beginning, instead of how you use those calculations in your field, then you are wasting a lot of class time.

[marshwiggle]

Because what you just posted sounds a lot like it came right out of the Radical Conservative Playbook.

This isn't "radical conservative" in the least. There have been discussions in the news about the "problem" that students in French immersion have a higher average than students in "normal" classes. (Not surprising, given that the engaged parents are more likely to put their kids in more challenging programs.)

Those French immersion parents are definitely a right-wing bunch; you know how popular second languages are with those radical conservatives.

Not the issue you opined about.

You still have not backed up a single thing you posted.

Four things you need to know about the new reading wars

"The fact is that most kids can learn to read with little or no phonics," Shanahan said. Indeed, many kids figure out how to read on their own before reading instruction even begins at school. However, a minority of students won't learn to read without phonics and many students would read significantly worse without phonics.

The best argument for phonics is that no one is harmed by it and a large subset of students is helped by receiving explicit phonics instruction from kindergarten through second grade.

No, Marshy.

This:

But the "culture war crap" is there in the first place because the "educators" threw in all kinds of stuff with no pedagogical value for the sake of ideology.

Education wonks are some of the worst for trying to impose social engineering goals on society at the expense of actual education.

Basically anything prescriptive is removed in favour of vague open-ended approaches to obscure the gap between students who are figuring it out and students who are struggling. In principle identifying struggling students is vitally important in order to give them more help, and having established processes for them to follow will help them succeed. But much of the emphasis has shifted to trying to raise their self-esteem without raising their competence.

Why aren't kids being taught to read?

Scientific research has shown how children learn to read and how they should be taught. But many educators don't know the science and, in some cases, actively resist it. As a result, millions of kids are being set up to fail.

The basic assumption that underlies typical reading instruction in many schools is that learning to read is a natural process, much like learning to talk. But decades of scientific research has revealed that reading doesn't come naturally. The human brain isn't wired to read. Kids must be explicitly taught how to connect sounds with letters — phonics.

"There are thousands of studies," said Louisa Moats, an education consultant and researcher who has been teaching and studying reading since the 1970s. "This is the most studied aspect of human learning."

But this research hasn't made its way into many elementary school classrooms. The prevailing approaches to reading instruction in American schools are inconsistent with basic things scientists have discovered about how children learn to read. Many educators don't know the science, and in some cases actively resist it. The resistance is the result of beliefs about reading that have been deeply held in the educational establishment for decades, even though those beliefs have been proven wrong by scientists over and over again.
Most teachers nationwide are not being taught reading science in their teacher preparation programs because many deans and faculty in colleges of education either don't know the science or dismiss it.

[dismalist]

...

Why aren't kids being taught to read?

Scientific research has shown how children learn to read and how they should be taught. But many educators don't know the science and, in some cases, actively resist it. As a result, millions of kids are being set up to fail.

The basic assumption that underlies typical reading instruction in many schools is that learning to read is a natural process, much like learning to talk. But decades of scientific research has revealed that reading doesn't come naturally. The human brain isn't wired to read. Kids must be explicitly taught how to connect sounds with letters — phonics.

"There are thousands of studies," said Louisa Moats, an education consultant and researcher who has been teaching and studying reading since the 1970s. "This is the most studied aspect of human learning."

But this research hasn't made its way into many elementary school classrooms. The prevailing approaches to reading instruction in American schools are inconsistent with basic things scientists have discovered about how children learn to read. Many educators don't know the science, and in some cases actively resist it. The resistance is the result of beliefs about reading that have been deeply held in the educational establishment for decades, even though those beliefs have been proven wrong by scientists over and over again.
Most teachers nationwide are not being taught reading science in their teacher preparation programs because many deans and faculty in colleges of education either don't know the science or dismiss it.

That article is certainly good and informative. However, it is important to realize that "following the science" is not always a clear answer. A citation in the article is

the dean said to her, "Is this your science or my science?"

What's wanted  is mechanisms to test these propositions, and that at the lowest hierarchical level possible. School choice would do the trick nicely.

Let's not put the blame on Schools of Education, for they follow what they can get away with.

Who will educate the educators?

[Anon1787]

Let's not put the blame on Schools of Education, for they follow what they can get away with.

I blame them and institutional reform should include them (including accreditation agencies) so they can't get away with quite as much.

[dismalist]

Let's not put the blame on Schools of Education, for they follow what they can get away with.

I blame them and institutional reform should include them (including accreditation agencies) so they can't get away with quite as much.

We don't have Schools of Choosing Supermarkets and Grocery Stores. Free choice, like we have among supermarkets and grocery stores, would do the trick.

Who will reform the reformers? :-)

[Wahoo Redux]

You still have not backed up a single thing you posted.

Four things you need to know about the new reading wars

"The fact is that most kids can learn to read with little or no phonics," Shanahan said. Indeed, many kids figure out how to read on their own before reading instruction even begins at school. However, a minority of students won't learn to read without phonics and many students would read significantly worse without phonics.

The best argument for phonics is that no one is harmed by it and a large subset of students is helped by receiving explicit phonics instruction from kindergarten through second grade.

[/quote]

No, Marshy.

This:

But the "culture war crap" is there in the first place because the "educators" threw in all kinds of stuff with no pedagogical value for the sake of ideology.

Education wonks are some of the worst for trying to impose social engineering goals on society at the expense of actual education.

Basically anything prescriptive is removed in favour of vague open-ended approaches to obscure the gap between students who are figuring it out and students who are struggling. In principle identifying struggling students is vitally important in order to give them more help, and having established processes for them to follow will help them succeed. But much of the emphasis has shifted to trying to raise their self-esteem without raising their competence.

[/quote]

Why aren't kids being taught to read?

Scientific research has shown how children learn to read and how they should be taught. But many educators don't know the science and, in some cases, actively resist it. As a result, millions of kids are being set up to fail.

The basic assumption that underlies typical reading instruction in many schools is that learning to read is a natural process, much like learning to talk. But decades of scientific research has revealed that reading doesn't come naturally. The human brain isn't wired to read. Kids must be explicitly taught how to connect sounds with letters — phonics.

"There are thousands of studies," said Louisa Moats, an education consultant and researcher who has been teaching and studying reading since the 1970s. "This is the most studied aspect of human learning."

But this research hasn't made its way into many elementary school classrooms. The prevailing approaches to reading instruction in American schools are inconsistent with basic things scientists have discovered about how children learn to read. Many educators don't know the science, and in some cases actively resist it. The resistance is the result of beliefs about reading that have been deeply held in the educational establishment for decades, even though those beliefs have been proven wrong by scientists over and over again.
Most teachers nationwide are not being taught reading science in their teacher preparation programs because many deans and faculty in colleges of education either don't know the science or dismiss it.

[/quote]

Still not it, Marshy.

I've got you with your pants down.  There is nothing suggesting ideology in the classroom, simply radical conservatives leading gullible people with propaganda. 

You laid out a stereotype.

You know what I challenged you to show and you are trying a series of run-arounds.

Your link is to an article about the failure of educational training to teach phonetics.  And there are several voices in the article opposed to phonetic teaching----and I know they have research backing them up.  Your link is an article that takes an angle, and not what I challenged you to prove.

Just stop.

Admit that you simply lapsed into a stereotypical rant from the rightwing peanut gallery.

[Anon1787]

We don't have Schools of Choosing Supermarkets and Grocery Stores. Free choice, like we have among supermarkets and grocery stores, would do the trick.

Who will reform the reformers? :-)

No, it won't any more than free choice of doctors or lawyers is enough to do the trick. Schools of education, like medical and law schools, have a large say in determining what constitutes being a qualified practitioner.

[ciao_yall]

But the "culture war crap" is there in the first place because the "educators" threw in all kinds of stuff with no pedagogical value for the sake of ideology. (If you can show me research that math attached to random factoids from some area that has nothing to do with math enhances learning, then go ahead.)

Education wonks are some of the worst for trying to impose social engineering goals on society at the expense of actual education. ("Whole language" is an obvious example; phonics fell out of favour even though there was lots of evidence of its value. Same for learning algorithms for solving math problems.) Basically anything prescriptive is removed in favour of vague open-ended approaches to obscure the gap between students who are figuring it out and students who are struggling. In principle identifying struggling students is vitally important in order to give them more help, and having established processes for them to follow will help them succeed. But much of the emphasis has shifted to trying to raise their self-esteem without raising their competence.

Right. Because "education wonks" are the ones behind all the Don't Say Gay, Anti-CRT, Anti-Ethnic Studies and similar legislation. Those are really good for kids' self-esteem and learning. /eyeroll.

[dismalist]

We don't have Schools of Choosing Supermarkets and Grocery Stores. Free choice, like we have among supermarkets and grocery stores, would do the trick.

Who will reform the reformers? :-)

No, it won't any more than free choice of doctors or lawyers is enough to do the trick. Schools of education, like medical and law schools, have a large say in determining what constitutes being a qualified practitioner.

Once upon a time one didn't have to go to Law School to be a lawyer. There was an apprenticeship. Abe Lincoln and such. We could still have Bar Exams if we wanted.

In a sense, Education Schools can be far more dangerous than Medical Schools! ::-)