Florida's rejection of math textbooks "due" to CRT

[mahagonny]

Just wondering: how many who have their knickers in a twist over books being used and not used in Florida's public schools, libraries would ever live in Florida? And how many have ever paid any tax to Florida beyond a food and beverage or gasoline tax during a visit. And how many are having any difficulty getting their kids into a woke math class? And how many will have difficulty getting access to these controversial books if they want to? A handful of states appear to be following the lead from Florida, or likely to, and as we all know, many more never will.

It really just depends on what Texas does. The reality of K-12 math is that (and DeSantis is correct about this) the publishers recycle in several ways. The Blitzer book kiana cited is ostensibly a College textbook, but the same hw problems and writing shows up in multiple versions of the Algebra I, Algebra II, Precalculus, Beginning Algebra, Intermediate Algebra and College Algebra versions by an author. The reason I mention Texas is that it is still a single textbook adoption state. To be competitive and have a chance the publisher MUST have something Texas will accept.

I see. But is someone worried that they will not be able to teach algebra in such a way that the students can master the skills? I scored 100 on the statewide final exam in high school algebra many years ago. I cannot imagine how the field has changed. It seems to be abstract, if that's the correct word. Pretty much apart from social justice topics of today.

[mamselle]

When I was in K12, back in the days of slates and chalk, our math problems involved one train leaving New York going west at 50 mph and another train leaving Chicago heading east going 30 mph.  When would they pass each other?  Transportation, geography, math all rolled into one unfathomable mess.  My trains always crashed.  I have spent my life in therapy over all those innocent dead people, killed because I was just a lil' suthern gurl and drifted off into never never land wondering about those magnificent cities.

Assuming a distance of 700 miles, the trains meet at 437.77 miles, which takes them 8hrs 45 min. [There's some rounding error in there.] That's approximately at Cleveland, Ohio. [Speaking with W.C. Fields, I'd rather die than be in Cleveland. No, I'd rather be in Cleveland.]

A challenge of this problem is keeping the units of measurement straight. I watched them hawk-like, but still screwed it up at first. :-)

How I spent my weekend ... .

If this is Amtrak you are going to need to factor in the random delays and miscommunications which can sometimes double the length of your trip.

And the fact that to get to NYC you have to change at one of two or three spots to get all the way through.

My favorite is Ann Arbor. Zingernagels' has excellent cheese omelettes...

M.

[jimbogumbo]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

[dismalist]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

It is such a pity that these things are decided at the State level, though better than at the national level. Were they decided at the level of the individual school, with school choice for parents, we would hardly hear of these matters as political matters.

Opinions differ.

[marshwiggle]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

Goldstein says the rejected textbooks addressed social-emotional learning in a variety of ways. "Some of them were quite awkward," she says. "There was one fifth grade math textbook from McGraw-Hill that had sort of a simple fractions question, and then right underneath it said, 'How do you understand your feelings?'"
Other social-emotional lessons were more seamlessly integrated. One high school textbook asked students to rate from 1 t0 4 how much they struggled with a concept.

The most charitable thing I can say is that it's possible if they restrict this to remedial classes where the kids are truly struggling with math, it might have some value. It would be totally useless and annoying for good students.

[jimbogumbo]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

Goldstein says the rejected textbooks addressed social-emotional learning in a variety of ways. "Some of them were quite awkward," she says. "There was one fifth grade math textbook from McGraw-Hill that had sort of a simple fractions question, and then right underneath it said, 'How do you understand your feelings?'"
Other social-emotional lessons were more seamlessly integrated. One high school textbook asked students to rate from 1 t0 4 how much they struggled with a concept.

The most charitable thing I can say is that it's possible if they restrict this to remedial classes where the kids are truly struggling with math, it might have some value. It would be totally useless and annoying for good students.

The mindset stuff I mentioned is useful at all ability levels. Many students who are smart think they've hit their ceiling in some content areas when in reality they have not.

[marshwiggle]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

Goldstein says the rejected textbooks addressed social-emotional learning in a variety of ways. "Some of them were quite awkward," she says. "There was one fifth grade math textbook from McGraw-Hill that had sort of a simple fractions question, and then right underneath it said, 'How do you understand your feelings?'"
Other social-emotional lessons were more seamlessly integrated. One high school textbook asked students to rate from 1 t0 4 how much they struggled with a concept.

The most charitable thing I can say is that it's possible if they restrict this to remedial classes where the kids are truly struggling with math, it might have some value. It would be totally useless and annoying for good students.

The mindset stuff I mentioned is useful at all ability levels. Many students who are smart think they've hit their ceiling in some content areas when in reality they have not.

That's why students need to be streamed so that the ones who need that support can get it, but the ones who don't can spend their time learning more MATH. Bogging everyone down to the lowest common denominator in any subject makes the overall performance of the education system much worse than it needs to be.

[dismalist]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

Goldstein says the rejected textbooks addressed social-emotional learning in a variety of ways. "Some of them were quite awkward," she says. "There was one fifth grade math textbook from McGraw-Hill that had sort of a simple fractions question, and then right underneath it said, 'How do you understand your feelings?'"
Other social-emotional lessons were more seamlessly integrated. One high school textbook asked students to rate from 1 t0 4 how much they struggled with a concept.

The most charitable thing I can say is that it's possible if they restrict this to remedial classes where the kids are truly struggling with math, it might have some value. It would be totally useless and annoying for good students.

The mindset stuff I mentioned is useful at all ability levels. Many students who are smart think they've hit their ceiling in some content areas when in reality they have not.

That's why students need to be streamed so that the ones who need that support can get it, but the ones who don't can spend their time learning more MATH. Bogging everyone down to the lowest common denominator in any subject makes the overall performance of the education system much worse than it needs to be.

That's why we need school choice, to test if any of this stuff works!

We could test streaming, too!

[jimbogumbo]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

Goldstein says the rejected textbooks addressed social-emotional learning in a variety of ways. "Some of them were quite awkward," she says. "There was one fifth grade math textbook from McGraw-Hill that had sort of a simple fractions question, and then right underneath it said, 'How do you understand your feelings?'"
Other social-emotional lessons were more seamlessly integrated. One high school textbook asked students to rate from 1 t0 4 how much they struggled with a concept.

The most charitable thing I can say is that it's possible if they restrict this to remedial classes where the kids are truly struggling with math, it might have some value. It would be totally useless and annoying for good students.

The mindset stuff I mentioned is useful at all ability levels. Many students who are smart think they've hit their ceiling in some content areas when in reality they have not.

That's why students need to be streamed so that the ones who need that support can get it, but the ones who don't can spend their time learning more MATH. Bogging everyone down to the lowest common denominator in any subject makes the overall performance of the education system much worse than it needs to be.

marshwiggle, I'm not talking about "rating how you feel" with the mindset materials. They are about how you can figure things out even if you are stuck. Calculus students in the US are streamed. Yet, in one well done study the average length of time a student would work on a problem when stuck was less than 60 seconds. And that was at a premier university. Admittedly, this is in major part a fault of instruction, particularly how tests are designed.

[marshwiggle]

The mindset stuff I mentioned is useful at all ability levels. Many students who are smart think they've hit their ceiling in some content areas when in reality they have not.

That's why students need to be streamed so that the ones who need that support can get it, but the ones who don't can spend their time learning more MATH. Bogging everyone down to the lowest common denominator in any subject makes the overall performance of the education system much worse than it needs to be.

marshwiggle, I'm not talking about "rating how you feel" with the mindset materials. They are about how you can figure things out even if you are stuck. Calculus students in the US are streamed. Yet, in one well done study the average length of time a student would work on a problem when stuck was less than 60 seconds. And that was at a premier university. Admittedly, this is in major part a fault of instruction, particularly how tests are designed.

I've read "Mindset" and I like Carol Dweck's stuff. I think it makes a lot of sense. What I was reacting to was the example given of the textbook asking students how they feel. That's not remotely related to mindset, and it's rubbish.

[ciao_yall]

More analysis here. The SEL I'm familiar with in math are mindset discussions along the lines that even if you don't understand something easily you can get better.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/28/1095042273/ron-desantis-florida-textbooks-social-emotional-learning

Goldstein says the rejected textbooks addressed social-emotional learning in a variety of ways. "Some of them were quite awkward," she says. "There was one fifth grade math textbook from McGraw-Hill that had sort of a simple fractions question, and then right underneath it said, 'How do you understand your feelings?'"
Other social-emotional lessons were more seamlessly integrated. One high school textbook asked students to rate from 1 t0 4 how much they struggled with a concept.

The most charitable thing I can say is that it's possible if they restrict this to remedial classes where the kids are truly struggling with math, it might have some value. It would be totally useless and annoying for good students.

The mindset stuff I mentioned is useful at all ability levels. Many students who are smart think they've hit their ceiling in some content areas when in reality they have not.

Exactly. "Good" students aren't inherently smarter. They do have more strategies for dealing with problems when they get stuck, whether feeling anxious because they aren't getting it, or methods for breaking down a complex problem, or strategies for trying to learn something new.

The more we can teach students that they are what they do and try rather than some inherent "born this way" set of characteristics, the more success we will have as a society.

And, teaching students that it's okay to struggle and work through things. In a similar vein, I had a very unhappy childhood. People told me that if I were "good person" I could get through it. Well, actually, it took a lot of hard emotional work and therapy and lessons learned the hard way and yeah, I got through it.

Still, I spent years thinking I wasn't a "good person" because I needed to do the emotional work and therapy and have some bad relationships in order to get through it. I wasn't a "good person" because I couldn't automatically translate from one abusive relationship into another healthy one.

[Istiblennius]

It's a bit off topic, but I think the more we can make math more practical and relevant to students the more they will find their way to understanding. One of the issues we have had at our place is that students come into upper division Bio, Econ, Psychometrics and other quant lit courses and are just lost because the MATH prefix courses they are required to take are divorced from and not preparing them for the kinds of numeracy they actually need. I recognize the difference between the Angelou example and Biostats, but an emphasis on numeracy and quantitative literacy in context does serve students well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-keep-students-in-stem-fields-lets-weed-out-the-weed-out-math-classes/

[marshwiggle]

I recognize the difference between the Angelou example and Biostats, but an emphasis on numeracy and quantitative literacy in context does serve students well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-keep-students-in-stem-fields-lets-weed-out-the-weed-out-math-classes/

The difference between the Angelou example and Biostats is precisely about context. The Angelou makes the math completely arbitrarily connected, while the article about is making the opposite point, that teaching the math where it arises naturally in the discipline makes it better for students.

[Puget]

I recognize the difference between the Angelou example and Biostats, but an emphasis on numeracy and quantitative literacy in context does serve students well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-keep-students-in-stem-fields-lets-weed-out-the-weed-out-math-classes/

The difference between the Angelou example and Biostats is precisely about context. The Angelou makes the math completely arbitrarily connected, while the article about is making the opposite point, that teaching the math where it arises naturally in the discipline makes it better for students.

See, if this was the basis for picking math books, and not culture war crap, I think we could all agree. Let experts who actually understand the science of teaching and learning evaluate textbooks based on what will best help students learn. Keep politicians out of the process.

[marshwiggle]

I recognize the difference between the Angelou example and Biostats, but an emphasis on numeracy and quantitative literacy in context does serve students well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-keep-students-in-stem-fields-lets-weed-out-the-weed-out-math-classes/

The difference between the Angelou example and Biostats is precisely about context. The Angelou makes the math completely arbitrarily connected, while the article about is making the opposite point, that teaching the math where it arises naturally in the discipline makes it better for students.

See, if this was the basis for picking math books, and not culture war crap, I think we could all agree. Let experts who actually understand the science of teaching and learning evaluate textbooks based on what will best help students learn. Keep politicians out of the process.

But the "culture war crap" is there in the first place because the "educators" threw in all kinds of stuff with no pedagogical value for the sake of ideology. (If you can show me research that math attached to random factoids from some area that has nothing to do with math enhances learning, then go ahead.)
Education wonks are some of the worst for trying to impose social engineering goals on society at the expense of actual education. ("Whole language" is an obvious example; phonics fell out of favour even though there was lots of evidence of its value. Same for learning algorithms for solving math problems.) Basically anything prescriptive is removed in favour of vague open-ended approaches to obscure the gap between students who are figuring it out and students who are struggling. In principle identifying struggling students is vitally important in order to give them more help, and having established processes for them to follow will help them succeed. But much of the emphasis has shifted to trying to raise their self-esteem without raising their competence.