IHE: Florida Passes Posttenure-Review Law

[pondering]

If that's true then maybe the tenure review process already in place is just a dog and pony show. Never expected to result in terminations.

Pondering: Where does it state in the new law that a person can be terminated for their politics?

You can read the text of the law here: http://laws.flrules.org/2022/70

The relevant section is 1.(b) on page 2 of the file.

Note first of all 1.(b)4.: "[the regulation must address] Recognition and compensation considerations, as well as improvement plans and consequences for underperformance."

That implies that we could be facing salary reductions, and the vaguely-phrased "consequences" could absolutely include termination. Florida politicians have made it clear that this is what they expect:

"Yes, higher education is important but it needs to be accountable," DeSantis said. "We need to have good curriculum. We need to make sure the faculty are held accountable and that they don't just have tenure forever, without having any type a — of, of, of, of, of, of, of, — a voice to hold them accountable or evaluate what they're doing," DeSantis said, struggling to find his words.

He added later:

"So, now with tenure, you have a five-year review. Every five years you go in front of the board of trustees–"

Applause and cheering from the audience interrupted DeSantis mid-sentence.

He continued:

"You go in front of the board of trustees, and they have the ability to part ways with you.[Emphasis added.] And I think the thing is that tenure was there to protect people so that they could do ideas that maybe would cause them to lose their jobs, or whatever, and academic freedom. I don't know that it's really the role that it plays quite frankly, any more. I think what it does, if anything, is created more of an intellectual orthodoxy, where people who have dissenting views, it's harder for them to even become tenured in the first place. And then once you're tenured your productivity really declines, particularly in certain disciplines."

Source: https://floridaphoenix.com/2022/04/19/desantis-other-state-officials-go-after-university-professors-tenure-protections/

The other crucial part of the law is in the opening paragraph of section (b): "The board may include other considerations in the regulation [in addition to items 1-3, which are explicitly identified]." Those "other considerations" could well include references to teaching Critical Race Theory or other politicized questions on which the Florida legislature has already passed laws just this year.

If you have any doubt that the politicians desire to weaponize the "other considerations" to shape the political views of the professoriate, I refer you to the words of Chris Sprowls in the article linked above, which I quoted at length earlier in the thread ("But there are some who come to indoctrinate and they shouldn't have a life-time job. They shouldn't get a life-time job here in the state of Florida." etc.).

I was looking forward to being able to relax just a little and enjoy teaching and research for their own sake after over a decade of precarity. Oh well.

Everything I've ever read in these fora claims that as soon as you get tenure your workload increases. (Not saying I believed it.)

That is certainly the case at my institution: service on committees increases while research and teaching expectations remain the same. I don't mind about that, as I'm something of a workaholic. As I said in the post you quoted, I was looking forward to teaching and researching for their own sake: these are aspects of the job which I believe are meaningful, as they help students and inform my intellectual community and a wider public with new knowledge, and which I find fulfilling.

What I object to is being made to jump through pointless, time-consuming hoops with bureaucratic busywork that asks me to justify my own existence. I classify job applications, annual evaluations, and the whole Kafka-esque tenure process (progress evaluations and of course the year-long dossier submission and voting process) under this (and yes, I recognize that some of these are necessary evils, but they still take time and energy away from the fulfilling parts of the job). Five-year post-tenure reviews would very much be in this category. Every hour spent composing another buzzwordy summary of how my "accomplishments" fit with the Board's "strategic vision for innovation in the state" or whatever is another hour I can't spend actually mentoring a student or re-designing my assignments or making progress on an article.

I'm not asking for your sympathy, but I think there can be good faith objections to post-tenure reviews that do not boil down to "I don't want to have to work hard."

ETA:

Having a contract with extreme job security guarantees creates a disincentive for hiring, which is why we have so many 'temporary' faculty. But if the door is opened to terminating tenured faculty when circumstances warrant, and in fact a few are  terminated, then this should result in more tenure lines, which is what these faculty say they want....(?)

If this were true, precariously employed instructors and lecturers (of which we have many in Florida universities) would be much easier to hire. Yet from what I've seen, deans are just as unwilling to create job openings for them as for tenure-line faculty. The only real growth is in adjuncts, as our student body has grown dramatically over the last 10-15 years but full-time faculty (tenured or not) have not increased in number at anywhere near the same rate. The root cause of that is the Republican legislature either cutting or freezing university budgets year after year, while refusing to allow tuition to rise at all, leaving very little budgetary space for hiring instructors with decent salaries and benefits (again, whether tenured or not).

[dismalist]

I have much sympathy, pondering. It all should be done differently, imo. However,

the dean does not determine how much I earn [broadly defined]. Market does that. The dean determines where I work.

[mahagonny]

That was my point. Having extreme job security increases the incentive for hiring the extreme opposite. All you're conveying is you would like full time "adjunct" faculty instead of part-timers. Probably because they would contribute to service needs.

The root cause of that is the Republican legislature either cutting or freezing university budgets year after year, while refusing to allow tuition to rise at all, leaving very little budgetary space for hiring instructors with decent salaries and benefits (again, whether tenured or not).

The state legislature does not require colleges to maintain a segmented labor system. Higher education has done this to (for) themselves.  The fact that money doesn't grow on trees was not their doing.

I have much sympathy, pondering. It all should be done differently, imo. However,

ETA: 

You can read the text of the law here: http://laws.flrules.org/2022/70

Thank you for the link. I asked and I received. The fact remains though, fringe characters are getting tenure and inserting themselves into the lives of mainstream Emrica, and the voters don't like it. what did you expect was coming? At least one of the people I mentioned, 'Ibram X. Kendi' is promoting fascist government rule.



the dean does not determine how much I earn [broadly defined]. Market does that. The dean determines where I work.

You could give higher education any amount of funding and they will still hire part-time faculty with no benefits, no job security, crap pay, because that's what they like to do.

[dismalist]

That was my point. Having extreme job security increases the incentive for hiring the extreme opposite. All you're conveying is you would like full time "adjunct" faculty instead of part-timers. Probably because they would contribute to service needs.

The root cause of that is the Republican legislature either cutting or freezing university budgets year after year, while refusing to allow tuition to rise at all, leaving very little budgetary space for hiring instructors with decent salaries and benefits (again, whether tenured or not).

The state legislature does not require colleges to maintain a segmented labor system. Higher education has done this to (for) themselves.  The fact that money doesn't grow on trees was not their doing.

I have much sympathy, pondering. It all should be done differently, imo. However,

the dean does not determine how much I earn [broadly defined]. Market does that. The dean determines where I work.

You could give higher education any amount of funding and they will still hire part-time faculty with no benefits, no job security, crap pay, because that's what they like to do.

Yes, yes, yes Mahagonny!

But higher ed can only do that on account there's so many people around accepting being adjuncts at current conditions.

[mahagonny]

'Ibram X. Kendi' has been promoting fascist government rule. Brittney Cooper (Rutgers) is on record stating she would like to be able to say 'we need to take these motherfuckers (white people) out' but laments that she cannot say it, after saying it. How do you not expect a revolt against these kinds of things?

Yes, yes, yes Mahagonny!

But higher ed can only do that on account there's so many people around accepting being adjuncts at current conditions.

One can blame either group of outsiders, part-time adjuncts or state legislators for ruining the higher ed landscape, but the fact remains the culture itself is mendacious. It claims to hate hiring part timers after proving the opposite for thirty years.

ETA: Democratic state legislators don't fund higher education the higher education thinks they should either. Blues state have tons of part time faculty too. The only difference they are on board with the mass "white-privilege" confession ritual, teaching third graders about changing genders, etc. and they support tenure.

[dismalist]

One can blame either group of outsiders, part-time adjuncts or state legislators for ruining the higher ed landscape, but the fact remains the culture itself is mendacious. It claims to hate hiring part timers after proving the opposite for thirty years.

There's no blame, Mahagonny, and no guilt. It's about colleges and universities following their own interests, just as we do as individuals.

If one wished to get more through the political process, welcome to the club, and compete in the political market with the others.

[mahagonny]

There's no blame, Mahagonny, and no guilt. It's about colleges and universities following their own interests, just as we do as individuals.

Yet now they are turning the public against them by conferring authority on anti-social individuals.

ETA: DeSantis may not sound like a brilliant thinker, but he's right about one thing. There has always been an expectation that state university systems do have certain American values in their mission.

[pondering]

You could give higher education any amount of funding and they will still hire part-time faculty with no benefits, no job security, crap pay, because that's what they like to do.

Don't worry, there's absolutely no risk of Florida Republicans giving generous amounts of funding to universities. If they had their way, every university employee would be treated like an adjunct: on the lowest possible pay and on a precarious contract, ready to be laid off at at any time. Jeb Bush even briefly tried to abolish tenure in order to adjunctify the entire higher education workforce in the state:

For example, the new Governor, Jeb Bush, took the position that tenure should be abolished at the universities so that PhDs could be hired, and retained temporarily, at the lowest possible price -- until other PhDs could be found to work for even less at the same jobs.

Source: https://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1574&context=jcba p. 4

[mahagonny]

You could give higher education any amount of funding and they will still hire part-time faculty with no benefits, no job security, crap pay, because that's what they like to do.

Don't worry, there's absolutely no risk of Florida Republicans giving generous amounts of funding to universities. If they had their way, every university employee would be treated like an adjunct: on the lowest possible pay and on a precarious contract, ready to be laid off at at any time. Jeb Bush even briefly tried to abolish tenure in order to adjunctify the entire higher education workforce in the state:

For example, the new Governor, Jeb Bush, took the position that tenure should be abolished at the universities so that PhDs could be hired, and retained temporarily, at the lowest possible price -- until other PhDs could be found to work for even less at the same jobs.

Source: https://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1574&context=jcba p. 4

I'm sure he did, but then again, he belongs to the party that academia has been trashing for several decades, so you know, what goes around comes around.
The smart way to keep adjunctification and the progressive political stronghold on academia around is to have a democratic legislature that pretends they're in a perpetual state of crisis because there are just too many problems that need money thrown at them. So, you know, what to do?

[pondering]

You could give higher education any amount of funding and they will still hire part-time faculty with no benefits, no job security, crap pay, because that's what they like to do.

Don't worry, there's absolutely no risk of Florida Republicans giving generous amounts of funding to universities. If they had their way, every university employee would be treated like an adjunct: on the lowest possible pay and on a precarious contract, ready to be laid off at at any time. Jeb Bush even briefly tried to abolish tenure in order to adjunctify the entire higher education workforce in the state:

For example, the new Governor, Jeb Bush, took the position that tenure should be abolished at the universities so that PhDs could be hired, and retained temporarily, at the lowest possible price -- until other PhDs could be found to work for even less at the same jobs.

Source: https://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1574&context=jcba p. 4

I'm sure he did, but then again, he belongs to the party that academia has been trashing for several decades, so you know, what goes around comes around.
The smart way to keep adjunctification and the progressive political stronghold on academia around is to have a democratic legislature that pretends they're in a perpetual state of crisis because there are just too many problems that need money thrown at them. So, you know, what to do?

As an academic in a red state, which has had a Republican legislature for three decades and Republican governors since 1998, I hope you don't mind if I concern myself primarily with how Republican politicians treat higher education, as that is what affects me and my colleagues.

[mahagonny]

As an academic in a red state, which has had a Republican legislature for three decades and Republican governors since 1998, I hope you don't mind if I concern myself primarily with how Republican politicians treat higher education, as that is what affects me and my colleagues.

Sure. I'm just saying, my money's on DeSantis.

ETA: I'm not saying this to bug you. It's just that I despise the 'anti-racism' and '100 genders that your third grader needs to know about' movements and their proponents.

[Sun_Worshiper]

If you take tenure away and make people feel like they have to publish constantly like they do as assistants, it will just incentivize more crappy p-hacked research in least publishable units. And, of course, good faculty will leave for greener pastures in other states.