What is your opinion on student loan forgiveness?

[Sun_Worshiper]

*snip* I think most people will similarly be unbothered by it.

I don't have any student loans, but my spouse does. When she was 18, she was living in an area hit hard by Hurricane Katrina. The only way she'd be able to attend college was via loans, and for a variety of personal reasons took out the max in order to escape to a college up the road. Neither she nor her mother had any idea of the ramifications of such a loan, given their poverty level. She deferred the first few years after leaving college, compounding the overall mistakes. Since then, her monthly payments are around 10% of her paycheck. For us, this amounts to some considerable debt relief.

That said, there are few people in our immediate circle of friends who have any sympathy. Comments like "she made dumb choices" and "she's just so lazy" and "I guess you want others to may for your dumb mistakes" are fairly common. So, yeah, I think there are a lot of people who are bothered by it -- will it change their voting habits? No. But I'm getting a bit weary of the near-constant beratement.

Sure, some people will complain, but that's true of any policy. I'm saying it probably won't bother enough people, to enough of an extent, to move the needle in a negative direction for Dems.

[jimbogumbo]

Just curious: is the amount for anyone who qualifies unrelated to total debt? If so, $10,000 or $20,000 to graduates of a CC or regional public will really be thankful, as their total borrowed will be significantly less than for those who typically get highlighted in op eds.

I'm also for stopping federal student loans completely for privates with large endowments. Yes, I know it cuts off access for those the universities won't give scholarships to, but I'm okay with that.

We can't lose sight of the fact the worst default rates with worst ROI are in for profit institutions. After sitting drinking an iced tea and listening to a recruiter hard selling both a mother and daughter on enrolling I wanted to hurt him. Real bad, as we used to say.

[Puget]

Just curious: is the amount for anyone who qualifies unrelated to total debt? If so, $10,000 or $20,000 to graduates of a CC or regional public will really be thankful, as their total borrowed will be significantly less than for those who typically get highlighted in op eds.

I'm also for stopping federal student loans completely for privates with large endowments. Yes, I know it cuts off access for those the universities won't give scholarships to, but I'm okay with that.

We can't lose sight of the fact the worst default rates with worst ROI are in for profit institutions. After sitting drinking an iced tea and listening to a recruiter hard selling both a mother and daughter on enrolling I wanted to hurt him. Real bad, as we used to say.

It's debt relief not a cash payment, so it obviously can't exceed the amount of federal debt (and it only applies to federal loans, not private), but other than that it is a flat amount, not tied to the overall amount. So yes, it will wipe out debt entirely for many who attended CCs or in state publics.

There is also a list of for profit institutions that have been deemed predatory for which all federal student loan debt is forgiven. This includes some big names in the scam education market, as well as obscure many trade schools. This will be a huge help to people who were tricked into going into debt for "degrees" that aren't worth the paper they were printed on.

[mahagonny]

There is some question wither it is legal though.

[Anon1787]

Of all the policies to be outraged about, this one ranks pretty low from my perspective, and I think most people will similarly be unbothered by it. I doubt it will have any meaningful impact on future elections or on Biden's popularity (Edit - beyond adding to the growing, and accurate, narrative that he quietly gets things done).

There's nothing quiet about it. He timed the final decision so that he can shout about a direct and tangible benefit for a large group of voters in the upcoming election. Spending $500 billion on circuses (the poor don't get much bread) and stretching the president's emergency powers at the expense of Congress (like his predecessor did to fund the border wall) is another step in the sad descent into Caesarism.

There is also a list of for profit institutions that have been deemed predatory for which all federal student loan debt is forgiven. This includes some big names in the scam education market, as well as obscure many trade schools. This will be a huge help to people who were tricked into going into debt for "degrees" that aren't worth the paper they were printed on.

How valuable are degrees from "nonprofit" institutions when their graduates struggle to pay off loans of less than $10K?

[dismalist]

And don't forget the fine print:

The Income Driven Repayment [IDR] system gets amended such that
--"discretionary" income is redefined from 150 percent of the federal poverty line to 225 percent of the federal poverty line;
--For undergraduate debt, reduced the IDR rate from 10 percent of income beyond the threshold above in to 5 percent of income beyond the threshold above.
--Interest not capitalized, i.e not owed. [Sure, you work for a wage now, you'll get paid next year, without interest.]

And carryover:

--remaining balance forgiven after 20 years.

Christ, man, borrow to the eyeballs! Pay a small income contingent fee for education, and the rest is free.

This is already debt forgiveness, but of much more future debt, on account it pays to borrow no matter what tuition is, and therefore, tuition will go up one hell of a lot.

This is madness.

[Sun_Worshiper]

There is some question wither it is legal though.

It will certainly be challenged in the courts.

Of all the policies to be outraged about, this one ranks pretty low from my perspective, and I think most people will similarly be unbothered by it. I doubt it will have any meaningful impact on future elections or on Biden's popularity (Edit - beyond adding to the growing, and accurate, narrative that he quietly gets things done).

There's nothing quiet about it. He timed the final decision so that he can shout about a direct and tangible benefit for a large group of voters in the upcoming election. Spending $500 billion on circuses (the poor don't get much bread) and stretching the president's emergency powers at the expense of Congress (like his predecessor did to fund the border wall) is another step in the sad descent into Caesarism.

Quiet in the sense that he is not tweeting or publicizing himself constantly like a carnival barker.

And, look, I am not a particular fan of the policy - see the section of my post that you did not quote - but I doubt this will make any meaningful difference in the midterms.

[mahagonny]

Quiet in the sense that he is not tweeting or publicizing himself constantly like a carnival barker.

I'm old enough to remember when Joe was clear-headed enough to get out on the Senate floor and hold court. He was quite the orator at one time.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Quiet in the sense that he is not tweeting or publicizing himself constantly like a carnival barker.

I'm old enough to remember when Joe was clear-headed enough to get out on the Senate floor and hold court. He was quite the orator at one time.

Certainly showing his age, but he was always a gaffe machine. Still, he's lucid and has even had some very good moments on the stage (post Jan 6 press conference was excellent, for example).

[Parasaurolophus]

I think this is an unalloyed good, and I'm glad of it. It's better than what I expected. I don't think it's anywhere near enough, but it's still a good thing.

Politically, I think this would have done him--and Democrats--much more good earlier in his term. It's clearly an attempt to swing some midterm votes, but I'm not convinced it'll pay off. I think it would have been better to do this early on (maybe even dangling the possibility of more), and build reputational resiliency instead.

[kaysixteen]

What are student loans and the law undergirding them like in Canada?

[mahagonny]

Quote from: mahagonny on Today at 01:03:30 PM
There is some question wither it is legal though.

It will certainly be challenged in the courts.

Which will likely be another opportunity to encourage people to hate the Supreme Court for doing their job. That's the new brand of patriotism from the more radical democrats. Seems to me the Supreme Court should not appreciate being put in the position where they need to reign in the POTUS. I wouldn't if I were them.

[Parasaurolophus]

What are student loans and the law undergirding them like in Canada?

First, the low end of tuition in Canada is around $3k, and the highest is about $8k. In Québec, the first step of post-secondary education is free (CEGEP is basically like community college with trade schools). (Remember also that there's not the same variation in quality of undergrad education here; they're all pretty much equivalent, and even the brand names are public).

Both the federal and provincial governments offer student loans among their aid packages, and the terms vary, although IIRC they do charge interest (which seems wrong to me), although you don't hear about people owing substantially more than they took out, like you do in the US. But the debt can be discharged through bankruptcy.

[marshwiggle]

What are student loans and the law undergirding them like in Canada?

First, the low end of tuition in Canada is around $3k, and the highest is about $8k. In Québec, the first step of post-secondary education is free (CEGEP is basically like community college with trade schools). (Remember also that there's not the same variation in quality of undergrad education here; they're all pretty much equivalent, and even the brand names are public).

Both the federal and provincial governments offer student loans among their aid packages, and the terms vary, although IIRC they do charge interest (which seems wrong to me), although you don't hear about people owing substantially more than they took out, like you do in the US. But the debt can be discharged through bankruptcy.

Maybe things have changed since the Stone Age when I was a student, but back then the government paid the interest until you were done full-time studies, so it only started to be charged to the student after that. (So if you could pay it off right after graduation, like a credit card bill before the deadline, you'd pay no interest.)

[Parasaurolophus]

I think that's right, but it may not apply to all the loans. I'm not sure.