IHE: Humanities Graduate Education is Shrinking

[quasihumanist]

I think many of you are overestimating how much humanities many PhD students care about transferrable skills.

I went to grad school because, frankly, I wanted to have no more to do with the corporate world.  I think I've said before that, if I had been unable to get full-time academic employment at some point, I would've tried peace activism.  In that kind of lifestyle, grad school or an adjunct job, as poorly paid and exploitative as it is, is seen as a stable source of income better (both socially and financially) than working at Macdonalds.  I am lucky that I am fairly talented at one of the few humanities fields (yes, theoretical mathematics is humanities) that didn't have a terrible job market.

I have a homeless friend who is applying again to PhD programs, having dropped out of one with an MA many years ago.  In between she's been serially fired from corporate jobs for standing up against various minor ethical disagreements most people would simply let pass for the sake of keeping the job.  A TA stipend or an adjunct job (at a department that agrees with her teaching philosophy - otherwise see previous sentence) would be a better deal than what she can manage now.

Many humanities PhD students are in grad school because, given the life commitments they've made, it's actually the best of the terrible choices available to them.

[Wahoo Redux]

I think many of you are overestimating how much humanities many PhD students care about transferrable skills.

I went to grad school because, frankly, I wanted to have no more to do with the corporate world.
Many humanities PhD students are in grad school because, given the life commitments they've made, it's actually the best of the terrible choices available to them.

My life right here.

This is why I am so dubious of financeguy's anecdata.  My own anecdata is that I have known a ton of musicians, theater geeks, and English-y types.  By and large, this is not the crowd to expect to run a financial portfolio or a stockbroker's office.  You don't study Ibsen, Sibelius, or T.S. Eliot because you are thinking about big bucks.

Please.

[kaysixteen]

quasihumanist, distinguished fellow alumnus of Dear Alma Mater, has a lot of good points, esp wrt the reality that many people who seek humanities PhDs are not interested in seeking non-academic 'transferable skills' from such studies.   The slog to get such a degree and the financial prospects of actual related-to-the-degree employment do not, ahem, motivate those who are not really committed to getting the degree in order to get such employment, to enter such a program, and certainly to complete one.  I get that some humanities folks may well not be great communicators, though their skills with language is likely to make them better communicators than the stereotypical Sheldons of the world.

QH, what exactly is 'theoretical mathematics', and how does it qualify as 'humanities'?

[marshwiggle]

A TA stipend or an adjunct job (at a department that agrees with her teaching philosophy - otherwise see previous sentence) would be a better deal than what she can manage now.

Many humanities PhD students are in grad school because, given the life commitments they've made, it's actually the best of the terrible choices available to them.

So I'd still like to know how that fits with the original quotation:

IHE: Humanities Graduate Education is Shrinking

The people who think there are too many humanities professors in the world may find cause for joy in the decline there, and doctoral students may be pleased to see a decline in the number of other Ph.D.s competing for those precious academic jobs. But aside from that, the only clearly positive indicator is that almost all of the people who received graduate degrees in the humanities are satisfied with their jobs."

Does "the best of the terrible choices available to them" count as "satisfied with their jobs"? In other words, was the above quotation true or not?

[Wahoo Redux]

People make choices and then they are happy with their choices, Marshy.

[marshwiggle]

People make choices and then they are happy with their choices, Marshy.

So why are people supposed to feel bad for them, if they're happy with their choice?

[apl68]

People make choices and then they are happy with their choices, Marshy.

So why are people supposed to feel bad for them, if they're happy with their choice?

In other words, you're talking about the complaining adjuncts and the "Quit Lit" complaints.  Evidently these, for all that their complaints are widely aired in academic news outlets, are atypical. 

I suspect that a lot of grad students who move on beyond academia are kind of like me.  I was greatly disappointed that grad school did not lead to a career in academia, spent a number of long years unhappy and wondering whether I'd made the right choice, and angry at having been sold a bill of goods by grad school recruiters, but ultimately found an alternative career that I was content with.  I feel today that, although my six years of PhD study did not lead directly to a career, and involved what in some ways were serious opportunity costs, I did benefit from my studies in ways that are hard to explain.  I don't regret having had the experience or the education of grad school.  I think there are many who feel that way.

That said...although I wish more students felt free to major in humanities fields that they are interested in as undergrads--they'd often be happier and more engaged if they followed their interests, and would probably learn more--I can't in good conscience recommend grad school to very many students.  The shrinkage of grad education makes me kind of sad, but I'm not sure it's such a bad thing in practice.  My biggest concern is that the shrinkage will continue until there's almost nothing left.  That would be a great loss, although it's hardly the worst loss that the world may be facing soon.

[Wahoo Redux]

People make choices and then they are happy with their choices, Marshy.

So why are people supposed to feel bad for them, if they're happy with their choice?

Oh Marshy...

That does not mean everyone is happy with their choice, simply that overall the people in question are happy with their careers and life choices.

Think. Think. Think, buddy.  Think before you post.

[marshwiggle]

People make choices and then they are happy with their choices, Marshy.

So why are people supposed to feel bad for them, if they're happy with their choice?

In other words, you're talking about the complaining adjuncts and the "Quit Lit" complaints.  Evidently these, for all that their complaints are widely aired in academic news outlets, are atypical. 

That seems to be the obvious conclusion.

That said...although I wish more students felt free to major in humanities fields that they are interested in as undergrads--they'd often be happier and more engaged if they followed their interests, and would probably learn more--I can't in good conscience recommend grad school to very many students.  The shrinkage of grad education makes me kind of sad, but I'm not sure it's such a bad thing in practice.  My biggest concern is that the shrinkage will continue until there's almost nothing left.  That would be a great loss, although it's hardly the worst loss that the world may be facing soon.

But that's the reason the point above is so important. If only a tiny portion of those with graduate degrees are unhappy, then the adjunct porn is misleading, and contributing to that decline.  If that's the case, then people in the field need to stand up and show exactly how atypical those stories are.

[Wahoo Redux]

But that's the reason the point above is so important. If only a tiny portion of those with graduate degrees are unhappy, then the adjunct porn is misleading, and contributing to that decline.  If that's the case, then people in the field need to stand up and show exactly how atypical those stories are.

We have, numerous times. The stats are easy to find on Google anyway. And most people outside of academia---and many inside---are completely unaware of the adjunct army. 

It is usually the people outside the humanities who spew misinformation about the humanities, Marshy.  Where do you fit in the continuum? 

[Hibush]

But that's the reason the point above is so important. If only a tiny portion of those with graduate degrees are unhappy, then the adjunct porn is misleading, and contributing to that decline.  If that's the case, then people in the field need to stand up and show exactly how atypical those stories are.

We have, numerous times. The stats are easy to find on Google anyway. And most people outside of academia---and many inside---are completely unaware of the adjunct army. 

It is usually the people outside the humanities who spew misinformation about the humanities, Marshy.  Where do you fit in the continuum?

One major source is guest editorials by relatively recent PhDs in IHE and CHE. Would they run guest editorials by those who find themselves--as they planned--in a good professional situation.

[marshwiggle]

But that's the reason the point above is so important. If only a tiny portion of those with graduate degrees are unhappy, then the adjunct porn is misleading, and contributing to that decline.  If that's the case, then people in the field need to stand up and show exactly how atypical those stories are.

We have, numerous times. The stats are easy to find on Google anyway. And most people outside of academia---and many inside---are completely unaware of the adjunct army. 

It is usually the people outside the humanities who spew misinformation about the humanities, Marshy.  Where do you fit in the continuum?

One major source is guest editorials by relatively recent PhDs in IHE and CHE. Would they run guest editorials by those who find themselves--as they planned--in a good professional situation.

That would be pretty ironic if the main sources of information discouraging people from pursuing graduate degrees in the humanities were publications dedicated to supporting higher education.

[pgher]

But that's the reason the point above is so important. If only a tiny portion of those with graduate degrees are unhappy, then the adjunct porn is misleading, and contributing to that decline.  If that's the case, then people in the field need to stand up and show exactly how atypical those stories are.

We have, numerous times. The stats are easy to find on Google anyway. And most people outside of academia---and many inside---are completely unaware of the adjunct army. 

It is usually the people outside the humanities who spew misinformation about the humanities, Marshy.  Where do you fit in the continuum?

One major source is guest editorials by relatively recent PhDs in IHE and CHE. Would they run guest editorials by those who find themselves--as they planned--in a good professional situation.

"I'm satisfied and content" makes for a boring article. "I'm angry and feel betrayed" gets clicks. Same reason the news doesn't report all the people who didn't get shot yesterday.

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

As per article (and report it is based on):
Master's degrees peaked in 2012 = 3 years after 2009
PhD degrees peaked in 2015 = 6 years after 2009
Am I the only one seeing the pattern:
[Graduation peak timing] = [Unemployment peak timing] + [Median time to degree]

BTW this pattern is not limited to humanities:
there is pre-2009 PhD comic noting a high correlation between graduate school enrollment and unemployment rate
https://phdcomics.com/comics/archive_print.php?comicid=1078

So, it seems the right answer is:

Many humanities PhD students are in grad school because, given the life commitments they've made, it's actually the best of the terrible choices available to them.

Though, I doubt that many people in the field would consider the decreased enrollment a cause for celebration.