Supreme Court Draft Opinion on Abortion Rights

[dismalist]

This looks pretty significant, overturning Roe and Casey:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/02/supreme-court-abortion-draft-opinion-00029473

There is a quote inside the link to the whole 98 pages. Have a look at some of it. Otherwise, the Politico article seems pretty informative to me.

My personal opinion is that women should have complete abortion rights, through "quickening", about four months. My political opinion is that 'twoud be good to get this question decided by States. People differ. The noise would be damped.

There would surely be many States to legalize abortion in some form should the draft become adopted.

The actual right to abortion would be guaranteed by cheap interstate travel. Used to be by plane for the rich; now that prices have come down one wouldn't have to be rich.

[downer]

The legal issues and the creation of a right to privacy are intellectually interesting. But it is obvious that the Supreme Court is a political entity and this was a long time coming.

The effect on women will be bad in some cases. Some women can hardly afford to get an abortion now, and they can't get time off work to travel. The abortion pill is around $500 and other procedures can be much more.

More than half of abortions are now done by medication. So the issue of ordering abortion medication from out of state and getting it delivered is going to become a major one. States are already making that illegal. But that may not prevent it.

Politically, it may be good for the Dems, just in time for the midterms.

[Katrina Gulliver]

More than half of abortions are now done by medication. So the issue of ordering abortion medication from out of state and getting it delivered is going to become a major one. States are already making that illegal. But that may not prevent it.

Yes, the online pharmacy rather than the coathanger. Much easier for activists too, to drop off/send small packages than transport women to clinics.

Politically, it may be good for the Dems, just in time for the midterms.

Depends on how they play it. Might go well for some state governors (I see Newsom already making hay).

[nebo113]

More than half of abortions are now done by medication. So the issue of ordering abortion medication from out of state and getting it delivered is going to become a major one. States are already making that illegal. But that may not prevent it.

Yes, the online pharmacy rather than the coathanger. Much easier for activists too, to drop off/send small packages than transport women to clinics.

Many states are also banning mail meds.
Politically, it may be good for the Dems, just in time for the midterms.

Depends on how they play it. Might go well for some state governors (I see Newsom already making hay).

[Parasaurolophus]

There's no question that predicating the right to abortion on the right to privacy was always dubious, but the reasoning hefe is transparent and self-serving bullshit. It also lays the groundwork for overturning Griswold and Obergfellas soon as the opportunity arises.

At this point, it's really starting to look like a shithole country, to coin a phrase.

[downer]

There's no question that predicating the right to abortion on the right to privacy was always dubious, but the reasoning hefe is transparent and self-serving bullshit. It also lays the groundwork for overturning Griswold and Obergfellas soon as the opportunity arises.

At this point, it's really starting to look like a shithole country, to coin a phrase.

The wider question of whether the US is a shithole country probably takes discussion too far afield. But red states have already make abortion difficult. Several states already have just one abortion clinic. There are many barriers to abortion in place.

Some abortions will probably still remain legal in the anti-abortion states, when the health or life of the pregnant woman is seriously in danger.

It is also possible that some people will be more careful about contraception if they know that abortion is illegal in their state.

So I don't anticipate major changes in the birth rate or the number of women who want abortions but can't them.

[mamselle]

I don't dare open this thread again.

M.

[marshwiggle]

I don't dare open this thread again.

M.

Even after the most "problematic" poster has been suspended?

[Istiblennius]

I don't believe the broader GOP wants to run on forced birth, but I still woke up this morning feeling so very sick and scared.

Many women may say one thing in front of white kkkristian* nationalist patriarchy, but in the privacy of the voting booth... could look different.

If the dems are smart (and they aren't) they'll wedge issue the hell out of this. Of course they haven't effectively wedge issued taking away the expanded child tax credit that lifted hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty and helped out middle class families substantially. If you can't rile people up over that, I probably shouldn't hold out hope for forced birth motivating a recognition that everyone's rights matter, and those rights include reproductive health and voting rights - not just gun ownership and the right to force your religious beliefs on other people.

*I should clarify that I find the teaching of Christ to be a valuable religious framework. The warping of the beliefs I grew up with that have emerged as a powerful anti-democratic force are as far removed from Christianity as real crab is from fake krab. So no offense intended to those who embrace christian values and make every effort to love their neighbor and do for the least of these.

[dismalist]

I recall that Ruth Bader Ginsburg was critical of Roe, not the substance of the outcome, of course, but that the decision as made had stopped a political process that was underway already.

Here is her reasoning, expressed in her Madison Lecture of 1992: http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/ECM_PRO_059254.pdf

The relevant material starts at roman numeral II on page 1198 and goes on to the end.

[financeguy]

My body, my choice?

I'm all in, but rings a bit hollow when we have seatbelt laws, motorcycle helmet mandates, prohibition on certain drugs, prostitution ban in most places, and an inability to sell your kidney. Ladies, if you're on board with all those things I'm on your side. If you aren't, I still agree with choice but won't be joining you in the picket line. Have fun with authoritarianism aimed in your direction!

[clean]

Is this something that will drive people to the polls and vote to change the federal legislature?  (only 1/3 of the senate will be up, and would those up for re election be overturned as a result of this issue?)

I suspect that legislators in many of the states that have pushed the limits already (Tx, OK, MS) wont have any problems being re elected.  The TV news reports that the majority of Americans support Roe V Wade (legal abortion).  However, I dont know that the 'majority' is so large that it will make a huge change, and the places where the majority reside wont change their support.

I mean, 'the majority of Americans Voted for Clinton'  , but the Republic is not represented by 'majority rule'.  I could certainly be wrong, as this is not my field, but I would not be surprised to learn that in places where there is a majority view (one way or the other) the legislators already represent those ideas, so there wont be any changes in the end.  (Having a super majority one way or the other in California wont change the votes for those that already represent California! /or TX or MS...  so I dont see this issue having legs for the midterms, but I could be wrong.  )

[nebo113]

My body, my choice?

I'm all in, but rings a bit hollow when we have seatbelt laws, motorcycle helmet mandates, prohibition on certain drugs, prostitution ban in most places, and an inability to sell your kidney. Ladies, if you're on board with all those things I'm on your side. If you aren't, I still agree with choice but won't be joining you in the picket line. Have fun with authoritarianism aimed in your direction!

That is an incredibly ugly, patronizing, condescending thing to say.  I am incensed that you say Have fun with authoritarianism aimed in your direction!  How dare you make light of  a legal decision that undermines much of what women and minorities have gained over the past 50 years.

[marshwiggle]

My body, my choice?

I'm all in, but rings a bit hollow when we have seatbelt laws, motorcycle helmet mandates, prohibition on certain drugs, prostitution ban in most places, and an inability to sell your kidney. Ladies, if you're on board with all those things I'm on your side. If you aren't, I still agree with choice but won't be joining you in the picket line. Have fun with authoritarianism aimed in your direction!

That is an incredibly ugly, patronizing, condescending thing to say.  I am incensed that you say Have fun with authoritarianism aimed in your direction!  How dare you make light of  a legal decision that undermines much of what women and minorities have gained over the past 50 years.

I'd just like to point out that there are women, including minority women, who are pro-life. Whether human rights should begin at birth is a legitimate question for discussion.

[ciao_yall]

My body, my choice?

I'm all in, but rings a bit hollow when we have seatbelt laws, motorcycle helmet mandates, prohibition on certain drugs, prostitution ban in most places, and an inability to sell your kidney. Ladies, if you're on board with all those things I'm on your side. If you aren't, I still agree with choice but won't be joining you in the picket line. Have fun with authoritarianism aimed in your direction!

Those laws are designed to protect the health and safety of a person and the people around them.

The right to choose whether or not to be pregnant and/or give birth is also about protecting the health and safety of the person who needs to decide about the impact a clump of cells will have on their lives.