college grads a minority

[kaysixteen]

Now I know that 2/3 of American adults 25+ lack a college degree, and I am wondering whether this is a similar rate to various peer countries, such as Canada, the UK, etc.   Specifically, I was listening today to an interview with Farah Stockman of the NYT, who has written a book pointing this out, and demonstrating how many if not most American college grads seem to ignore this reality, and seem genuinely confused when those non-college educated countrymen ignore the wisdom of their betters.  I would be especially interested to learn how such dichotomies play out elsewhere, and, specifically, how college-educated people in those countries get their lesser-educated countrymen to at least consider that the college educated have, ahem, learned things that may well be worth listening to.   I think I know, but am interested in other views...?

[Volhiker78]

Can't vouch for the accuracy but the following seems reasonable to me:

https://www.russellsage.org/sites/default/files/Fig10_Comparative_hires_0.png

[marshwiggle]

Now I know that 2/3 of American adults 25+ lack a college degree, and I am wondering whether this is a similar rate to various peer countries, such as Canada, the UK, etc.   Specifically, I was listening today to an interview with Farah Stockman of the NYT, who has written a book pointing this out, and demonstrating how many if not most American college grads seem to ignore this reality, and seem genuinely confused when those non-college educated countrymen ignore the wisdom of their betters.  I would be especially interested to learn how such dichotomies play out elsewhere, and, specifically, how college-educated people in those countries get their lesser-educated countrymen to at least consider that the college educated have, ahem, learned things that may well be worth listening to.   I think I know, but am interested in other views...?

Why would I want to be a pompous ass to people with less formal education than I have, like all of the service people without whom I'd basically be living in a cave?

[Parasaurolophus]

Canada has the highest proportion of college and university graduates in the OECD. Way back in 2016, something like 54% of the population aged 25-64 had a post-secondary diploma or degree.

Whenever the results from the latest census are released, we'll see what it's like now.

[ciao_yall]

Now I know that 2/3 of American adults 25+ lack a college degree, and I am wondering whether this is a similar rate to various peer countries, such as Canada, the UK, etc.   Specifically, I was listening today to an interview with Farah Stockman of the NYT, who has written a book pointing this out, and demonstrating how many if not most American college grads seem to ignore this reality, and seem genuinely confused when those non-college educated countrymen ignore the wisdom of their betters.  I would be especially interested to learn how such dichotomies play out elsewhere, and, specifically, how college-educated people in those countries get their lesser-educated countrymen to at least consider that the college educated have, ahem, learned things that may well be worth listening to.   I think I know, but am interested in other views...?

If people felt college was attainable and affordable to themselves, as opposed to something only snobby rich privileged elites could have...

If they felt it was a choice to attend or not, as opposed to being forced to take a job they might not find satisfying or fulfilling as well as having to take orders from some college kid in management who didn't know what they knew...

Anyway, they might have more respect instead of resentment for people who decided to study science and policy. They decided book life wasn't for them, but know they could change careers any time they wanted to.

[Hibush]

Now I know that 2/3 of American adults 25+ lack a college degree, and I am wondering whether this is a similar rate to various peer countries, such as Canada, the UK, etc.   Specifically, I was listening today to an interview with Farah Stockman of the NYT, who has written a book pointing this out, and demonstrating how many if not most American college grads seem to ignore this reality, and seem genuinely confused when those non-college educated countrymen ignore the wisdom of their betters.  I would be especially interested to learn how such dichotomies play out elsewhere, and, specifically, how college-educated people in those countries get their lesser-educated countrymen to at least consider that the college educated have, ahem, learned things that may well be worth listening to.   I think I know, but am interested in other views...?

Why would I want to be a pompous ass to people with less formal education than I have, like all of the service people without whom I'd basically be living in a cave?

I found Kay's carefull crafted sentences to be entertaining, catching the ethos so precisely. Marsh's reply cathces another ethos just right as well. <thumbsup>

[dismalist]

If people felt college was attainable and affordable to themselves, as opposed to something only snobby rich privileged elites could have...

College is clearly attainable and affordable for anybody who can get accepted. Just borrow. If it's not worth borrowing for, it's not worth it.

[Wahoo Redux]

Part of the educated / non-educated matrix is generational.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/785618/educational-attainment-by-age-group-us/

[ciao_yall]

If people felt college was attainable and affordable to themselves, as opposed to something only snobby rich privileged elites could have...

College is clearly attainable and affordable for anybody who can get accepted. Just borrow. If it's not worth borrowing for, it's not worth it.

OK Boomer.

[jerseyjay]

Several initial thoughts:

1) This will happen when the university-educated themselves think that they "have learned things that may well be worth listening to." Among most of my students, there is little appreciation that a university education is about learning things rather than obtaining a degree.

2) This will happen when the university educated understand that the non-university-educated have "learned things that may well be worth listening to." I mean, I am friendly with my auto mechanic. His training (including decades of practice) was, in its own way, as intensive as my PhD program. His expertise as genuine as my own and in some situations, more important. Same things with train conductors and longshoremen.

3) This will happen when, ironically, everybody understands that the educated only have a right to be especially listened to in very specific circumstances. That is, in my neighborhood, the university-educated are a minority so I interact with people who do not have a university education regularly. There are very few situations in which I would expect people to listen to me just because I am educated. I suppose if I got in a discussion about my academic speciality, I would expect people to listen to me. Or if I got in a discussion about faculty governance. But other than this, the only time I really expect people to listen to me is when I am teaching.

4) Probably an ideal situation is (for example) the way university-educated people treat other university-educated people with specialized degrees. I know people with MBAs, JDs, MDs, and PhDs. I respect their education. If I am talking about medicine, I probably appreciate an MD has "learned things that may well be worth listening to." But I don't think an MD is by extension should be listened to more than other people in general.

5.) Finally, as a general rule, I think it is important to realize that all people are worth listening to. There are of course people in my life whom I have learnt not to listen to because they are foolish, non-serious people.  However, they are as likely to have a university degree as those as not.

In Spanish, there is a difference between educacción and enseñanza. (Since Kaysixteen is a language teacher, this would I assume be one of the worthwhile things he has learnt.)  It is very possible to have advanced degrees and be maleducado.

[Wahoo Redux]

This thread drift is interesting in that we feel the need to defend the working class who are not, to the best of my knowledge, represented on this fora.

Look, we all respect the electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc. and listen to their expertise without condescension.  And we will pay them plenty----we got estimates on replacing some flashing on our roof vents and a bathtub liner----these people are making at least as much as we do, and then some.

And if you were a middle class kid like me you probably had a ton of minimum wage jobs as you grew up and into young adulthood.  I used to haul sheetrock and I worked in a shingle factory, two of the hardest things I've ever done.  My favorite blue-collar job was as a janitor.

No one wants to hear what I have to say except in a classroom scenario, and I am fine with that.

However, in the same vein that I listen to my mechanic and roofing contractor and trust their experience and training, I sure wish parts of our population would listen to our virologists, doctors, legal experts, election officials, climatologists, and even our journalists with the same level of respect.

Yesterday, following my brother-in-law (who delivers medical supplies for a living) to an antique barn not far from the roadside stand selling Trump paraphernalia, I saw a bumper sticker on the battered and rust-stained pickup truck parked next to us:

Republican:
working hard
so you don't have to

Well, okay...all of which points out this class / education division which----based on my experience as a small town boy who grew up idolizing Eddie Van Halen (RIP)----is far more overt and confrontation on the blue-collar rightwing than it is in the Tower.  Heck, just look at the commentary on this thread.

[kaysixteen]

Awwright, thanks all.   I suppose I should clarify the points I have been musing on, which motivated me to raise the thread in the first place. 

1)  I get that a long-time master car mechanic has a lot to say.... about cars and stuff like this.   On the other hand, six months ago I sat in my car dealer's office whilst my car was being serviced, and the man, a friend of mine, volunteer church pastor, good guy, etc., started to tell me how Bill Gates was engineering the covid vax to implant microchip surveillance devices.   What the hell was I supposed to say?   Now of course this man knows I have a PhD, a car full of books, and have been a college professor, and he has great respect for me ( I am also about 8 years older than he is).  But my point here is that his great experience and skills with cars, etc., cannot be compared with my education (or probably even a BA from a good liberal arts college or R1 uni, perhaps even some lesser schools) in terms of developing a) critical thinking skills b) the knowledge base needed to use those critical thinking skills to make real decisions about matters of public policy, evaluation of evidence, etc.   Really, it just can't.   So how does one convince people like this of these realities, esp given

2) The other thing I am considering is that this attitude on the part of these non-college grad Americans is developing due to tribal identity politics, a view that 'we have to own the libs, down with those elitists who want to tell us they know best, etc.'

[ergative]

I think the educated liberal elites who know best are just as much subject to tribal identity politics as the non-college grad anti-vaxxers.

(Except, naturally, our tribe is better and righteous and holds the moral high ground, etc. etc.)

[Katrina Gulliver]

Raise your hand if you've never heard someone with an advanced degree spew nonsense. The "elites" have their conspiracy theories and lies too - just as stupid as the covid-vaxx-microchip stuff.

Some of the dumbest people I know have PhDs. They may be brilliant in their field but I wouldn't trust them to read a bus timetable.

[Kron3007]

Awwright, thanks all.   I suppose I should clarify the points I have been musing on, which motivated me to raise the thread in the first place. 

1)  I get that a long-time master car mechanic has a lot to say.... about cars and stuff like this.   On the other hand, six months ago I sat in my car dealer's office whilst my car was being serviced, and the man, a friend of mine, volunteer church pastor, good guy, etc., started to tell me how Bill Gates was engineering the covid vax to implant microchip surveillance devices.   What the hell was I supposed to say?   Now of course this man knows I have a PhD, a car full of books, and have been a college professor, and he has great respect for me ( I am also about 8 years older than he is).  But my point here is that his great experience and skills with cars, etc., cannot be compared with my education (or probably even a BA from a good liberal arts college or R1 uni, perhaps even some lesser schools) in terms of developing a) critical thinking skills b) the knowledge base needed to use those critical thinking skills to make real decisions about matters of public policy, evaluation of evidence, etc.   Really, it just can't.   So how does one convince people like this of these realities, esp given

2) The other thing I am considering is that this attitude on the part of these non-college grad Americans is developing due to tribal identity politics, a view that 'we have to own the libs, down with those elitists who want to tell us they know best, etc.'

Correlation is not causation.  If that same person had attended university, they would likely still think Gates is microchipping us.  So, do some people lack critical thinking skills because they didn't attend university, or did they not attend university because they lack critical thinking skills? 

When I was a grad student, there was a prof on my campus holding evening  public lectures on how the arc could actually have been real (with dimensions etc).  Any critical thinker will recognize that a literal interpretation of Noah's arc is ridiculous, yet there it was....