college grads a minority

[Wahoo Redux]

Question to Wahoo and others:
In a case like this, where thread drift has occurred, but the OP has continued to follow the drift, as Kay has done WRT smoking, is that "drift" still a matter of concern? Is the problem with drift that the title doesn't reflect the current discussion, or is it something else?
(Serious question; I'm honestly curious.)

I'm very concerned!!!
In fact, I am enraged!!!!
Fie upon the drifters!!!!

[apl68]

Wahoo has now spoken for Wahoo.

[marshwiggle]

Just for context, I raised the issue because of previous discussions about moderation of the Fora, and I recall one of the matters that came up was thread "derailment" ("hijacking", etc.). I think of these discussions kind of like various conversations among pockets of people at a party, where people join and leave and the discussion is in constant flux. Others may view individual threads on here more like seminars at a conference, where whatever one you enter should be basically devoted to what it says on the sign outside the door.

[Wahoo Redux]

Fie!!!  Fie, I say!!!!  Fie! Fie! Fie!

I have started to smoke again to deal with the stress...

My advanced education has not given me the critical thinking skills to deal with this level of Fie!!!

[ergative]

Just for context, I raised the issue because of previous discussions about moderation of the Fora, and I recall one of the matters that came up was thread "derailment" ("hijacking", etc.). I think of these discussions kind of like various conversations among pockets of people at a party, where people join and leave and the discussion is in constant flux. Others may view individual threads on here more like seminars at a conference, where whatever one you enter should be basically devoted to what it says on the sign outside the door.

I agree with your view, but that doesn't mean that topic shift is always good. There's a difference between organic, mutually agreeable drift, which is what seems to have happened here, and derailment/hijacking, which is when one individual tries to force a shift--often to a pet topic that had already been discussed elsewhere. Especially if the same individual repeatedly does that on multiple threads, always toward the same pet topic.

Even at the most fluctuating, free-ranging party, there's still going to be a collective groan when Zuzu's weird boyfriend strolls up--you know, the one who's always banging on about cryptocurrency.

Fie!!!  Fie, I say!!!!  Fie! Fie! Fie!

I have started to smoke again to deal with the stress...

My advanced education has not given me the critical thinking skills to deal with this level of Fie!!!

That is a very impressive redirection back to the original topic!

[Kron3007]

Just for context, I raised the issue because of previous discussions about moderation of the Fora, and I recall one of the matters that came up was thread "derailment" ("hijacking", etc.). I think of these discussions kind of like various conversations among pockets of people at a party, where people join and leave and the discussion is in constant flux. Others may view individual threads on here more like seminars at a conference, where whatever one you enter should be basically devoted to what it says on the sign outside the door.

I agree with your view, but that doesn't mean that topic shift is always good. There's a difference between organic, mutually agreeable drift, which is what seems to have happened here, and derailment/hijacking, which is when one individual tries to force a shift--often to a pet topic that had already been discussed elsewhere. Especially if the same individual repeatedly does that on multiple threads, always toward the same pet topic.

Even at the most fluctuating, free-ranging party, there's still going to be a collective groan when Zuzu's weird boyfriend strolls up--you know, the one who's always banging on about cryptocurrency.

Fie!!!  Fie, I say!!!!  Fie! Fie! Fie!

I have started to smoke again to deal with the stress...

My advanced education has not given me the critical thinking skills to deal with this level of Fie!!!

That is a very impressive redirection back to the original topic!

Maybe you guys should start a thread on it..... 😉

[Myword]

Reactions:   I do not trust auto mechanics, at all. They are salesmen, trying to sell you repairs that you may not need at prices too high. You may need the repair in the future, not now. Whenever money is exchanged, the chance of fraud or deception is present.

The old myth is that Ph.D.s are supposed to be the smartest out there. Of course, that is often untrue but they know their narrow specialty. Even Einstein might have been ignorant outside of math and physics. Academic also means a moot point, stuff that doesn't matter. So you get disrespect and insolence from students and maybe from family members.
    Non college educated persons have no idea what goes on in a classroom and don't care to know, in my experience. They undervalue it unless the degree brings a good job and a lot of money! Something tangible.
Really, the attitude is very old. I recall it in the Sixties on campuses.
  I agree with the poster who said that Ph.D. professors can spew nonsense within or outside their expertise. I know two or three.

[little bongo]

    Non college educated persons have no idea what goes on in a classroom and don't care to know, in my experience. They undervalue it unless the degree brings a good job and a lot of money! Something tangible.
Really, the attitude is very old. I recall it in the Sixties on campuses.
  I agree with the poster who said that Ph.D. professors can spew nonsense within or outside their expertise. I know two or three.

The attitude is even older than that. The term "school of hard knocks" dates from the turn of the 20th century, and distrust of college appears in a great deal of popular culture from the early part of the century (such as the Marx Brothers in "Horsefeathers" and how the Scarecrow gets his "brain" in "The Wizard of Oz," for example). In general, the biggest knuckleheads in comedies and farces of the period were recent college graduates.

[Wahoo Redux]

    Non college educated persons have no idea what goes on in a classroom and don't care to know, in my experience. They undervalue it unless the degree brings a good job and a lot of money! Something tangible.
Really, the attitude is very old. I recall it in the Sixties on campuses.
  I agree with the poster who said that Ph.D. professors can spew nonsense within or outside their expertise. I know two or three.

The attitude is even older than that. The term "school of hard knocks" dates from the turn of the 20th century, and distrust of college appears in a great deal of popular culture from the early part of the century (such as the Marx Brothers in "Horsefeathers" and how the Scarecrow gets his "brain" in "The Wizard of Oz," for example). In general, the biggest knuckleheads in comedies and farces of the period were recent college graduates.

I'll say it again: there is a healthy part of any population that would love to see college grads----and particularly profs----put back in their place. 

I don't think the biases are nearly as overt in the Tower as they are on the street.

[dismalist]

I do not trust auto mechanics, at all. They are salesmen, trying to sell you repairs that you may not need at prices too high. You may need the repair in the future, not now. Whenever money is exchanged, the chance of fraud or deception is present.

This is wise behavior in all markets with information asymmetry, where one side of the transaction knows less about the product than the other side of the transaction. Auto repair is a good example [you need new brakes], as is health care [you don't need that uterus, madam], and  ...  higher education [you do need to know that Sonnet]! :-)

[Wahoo Redux]

Sonnet or be a philistine! 

[dismalist]

Sonnet or be a philistine!

Easy man, Bloomsday is approaching! :-)

[apl68]

    Non college educated persons have no idea what goes on in a classroom and don't care to know, in my experience. They undervalue it unless the degree brings a good job and a lot of money! Something tangible.
Really, the attitude is very old. I recall it in the Sixties on campuses.
  I agree with the poster who said that Ph.D. professors can spew nonsense within or outside their expertise. I know two or three.

The attitude is even older than that. The term "school of hard knocks" dates from the turn of the 20th century, and distrust of college appears in a great deal of popular culture from the early part of the century (such as the Marx Brothers in "Horsefeathers" and how the Scarecrow gets his "brain" in "The Wizard of Oz," for example). In general, the biggest knuckleheads in comedies and farces of the period were recent college graduates.

Well...it's not totally off-base.  I'm sure all of us here have seen some real "knuckleheads" who managed to graduate while continuing to exhibit knucklehead behavior.  More seriously, many recent college grads do find themselves kind of adrift and wondering what to do next.  I've seen this called "the quarter-life crisis."  These recent grads have traditionally been a principal recruiting ground for graduate programs, but they seem to have less fertile hunting now.  They certainly succeeded in snaring me three decades ago!

[jerseyjay]

I think that in many fields, people who have completed their academic/theoretical studies but lack concrete experience are seen as somewhat half-baked. This seems to be the case in the military, medicine, teachers, lawyers, etc. I don't think is so much a denigration of education per se but the understanding that education itself is incomplete without practical experience.

I don't think I would trust an auto mechanic, but this is similar to many people who hold specialized knowledge that is both important and worth a premium. Several years ago, my dentist said I needed a root canal and it would cost thousands of dollars after the implant, etc., were done. Since it had not been that long since my last check up and I was in no pain, I was somewhat skeptical. I went to another dentist for a second opinion, who not only confirmed that I needed a root canal, but said I needed a second root canal (although the cost of both of these cost less than what the first dentist was charging for one root canal). This is why, with dentists and mechanics, I try to go with providers recommended by people I trust.  But this has nothing to do with dentistry (or medicine) requiring more or less intelligence than auto mechanics, although it certainly requires more formal education.

[waterboy]

I'll say it again: there is a healthy part of any population that would love to see college grads----and particularly profs----put back in their place.

Just out of curiosity, what, exactly, is my place?

(Don't judge on the commas...grammar was never a strong suit)