Lectures + Discussion Sections

[AvidReader]

I've not done this with 100 students, but I used to teach very long composition classes (90+ minutes) and often set up a short discussion board that would open up mid-class so that I could ask students to make a post about the day's topic and then comment on or critique 1 or 2 classmates' posts (e.g. the first student might write a thesis statement according to set guidelines and the second student might write a sentence describing the sections or topics that one might expect to see in the essay). A few minutes before the time ended, I would skim through the posts and choose a few to discuss as a class. I usually made these worth a nominal number of points and graded pass/fail.

AR.

[Caracal]

I'm sticking with a no-electronics rule, myself. My students tell me that in the big lecture classes, they sit near people who are surfing the web, buying stuff on ebay, and watching porn on their laptops or their phones. Electronics are designed to be distracting. I have enough problems dealing with an 80-minute lecture class without competing with the internet.

And that gets to the reason why it's not enough to just take an "if they want to waste their time surfing the 'net during lecture it's their own business" approach.  This behavior is creating distractions for neighboring students who may be trying to concentrate on the lecture.  In the case of porn watching, it may also be creating what some neighboring students consider a hostile environment.

I mean if I learned that a student was watching porn in class, I'd obviously need to deal with that. Not really something I'm likely to encounter. The number of people who think that a classroom is a good place to watch porn is pretty small.

I can understand why some people would ban computers. For me, it isn't worth it for all the reasons others have already discussed. There's a middle ground between trying to enforce no tolerance rules and just letting everything go. I can't say I've completely found that balance, but I try to remind students about responsible use of laptops and not distracting others. I also make an effort to wander around the classroom, and if I notice somebody seems particularly distracted I might walk through the aisle behind them. I know people who will go and stand by a distracted student and just stop talking till the student realizes everyone is staring at them. I probably need to start doing that kind of thing more...

[kaysixteen]

apl is obviously right, of course, but even if letting the students (ab)use electronics in class did not distract (and potentially worse) other students, it does distract the users.  Often to the point of making their class attendance useless.  And I as the teacher, whether k-12 or higher ed, do have a responsibility to not surrender and let them do this.   I am actually supposed to be *teaching* them the material, and bogus appeals to things like 'they're adults', 'it's their responsibility', well.. nein danke.

[ergative]

apl is obviously right, of course, but even if letting the students (ab)use electronics in class did not distract (and potentially worse) other students, it does distract the users.  Often to the point of making their class attendance useless.  And I as the teacher, whether k-12 or higher ed, do have a responsibility to not surrender and let them do this].   I am actually supposed to be *teaching* them the material, and bogus appeals to things like 'they're adults', 'it's their responsibility', well.. nein danke.

I think this is where we disagree. In k-12, yes, you do have a responsibility to teach your students how to be students, and that includes monitoring their attention and note-taking. In higher ed, however they are adults, and what is more, the students who are paying attention are also adults, with a better claim to your time and attention than their flaky classmates.

We have a limited amount of time and attention we can give to teaching, and it's not fair to the students who are doing everything right for us to be constantly fretting over the ones who don't respect us or their classmates or the time and effort that higher ed demands from everyone. I don't think we should be shortchanging the students who want to be there by chastising and picking at the students who couldn't care less.

By enforcing a respectful and collaborative environment with the students who do it right, we'll not only improve their experience, but we might pull in some of the flakey students who would otherwise treat our classes as grade 13 and fall back on their reflexive classroom dynamics of combative resistance to the teacher.

[Caracal]

apl is obviously right, of course, but even if letting the students (ab)use electronics in class did not distract (and potentially worse) other students, it does distract the users.  Often to the point of making their class attendance useless.  And I as the teacher, whether k-12 or higher ed, do have a responsibility to not surrender and let them do this].   I am actually supposed to be *teaching* them the material, and bogus appeals to things like 'they're adults', 'it's their responsibility', well.. nein danke.

I think this is where we disagree. In k-12, yes, you do have a responsibility to teach your students how to be students, and that includes monitoring their attention and note-taking. In higher ed, however they are adults, and what is more, the students who are paying attention are also adults, with a better claim to your time and attention than their flaky classmates.

We have a limited amount of time and attention we can give to teaching, and it's not fair to the students who are doing everything right for us to be constantly fretting over the ones who don't respect us or their classmates or the time and effort that higher ed demands from everyone. I don't think we should be shortchanging the students who want to be there by chastising and picking at the students who couldn't care less.

By enforcing a respectful and collaborative environment with the students who do it right, we'll not only improve their experience, but we might pull in some of the flakey students who would otherwise treat our classes as grade 13 and fall back on their reflexive classroom dynamics of combative resistance to the teacher.

Yeah, that's well put and more or less how I approach things. I'm trying to make my class meaningful, useful and interesting for students who care. That still involves some classroom management, but it helps me when I think of it in terms of my responsibility to students who are trying. The problem with students chortling to each other in the middle of class isn't that they need to learn to be respectful-the issue is that the rest of us can't focus.

I actually do more attendance and reading quizzes and things than I'd really like to. I'm not doing it to try to get the completely disinterested students to come to class or do the reading. If you are determined not to do the reading you can probably manage the quizzes by looking stuff up-or getting the answers from someone else. If you don't participate or pay any attention, I don't really care if you come to class. I do this stuff because a discussion where only two people have done the reading is painful and boring for everyone and when only a third of the class comes on Friday morning, its hard to maintain any kind of momentum or cohesion.

I've had students tell me that even though they find the reading quizzes irritating, they do help them to keep up with the reading and improve their grade and their enjoyment of the class. That's how teaching should work in college. All I'm doing is providing a reminder to do the reading. The student is the one who actually spends some time on the reading and comes to class with interesting things to say about it.

It's like having students in a writing course turn in a full draft. I can't make them spend time on the draft and devote time to revising it. I'm just trying to create a structure that will teach a motivated student how to go through this process.

[Istiblennius]

It isn't perfect but I've tried to capitalize the electronics with my students in the following ways: 

I use menti.com for interactive polling and students can easily engage with their own devices (my quieter students tell me in their feedback forms that they like being able to contribute without feeling pressure of speaking out all the time).

I regularly have them open the LMS to do a quick online group activity (and then those are autograded or if it is a group response, I can do group grading to save time - winning!)

I send them to Google to find information or an example in small groups to discuss.

I find open source simulations that they can do online as part of an in-class activity or explorations. For example, LearnGenetics.com has the fun pigeonetics game where students can goof around and breed cartoon pigeons to practice basic genetics. They get in small groups where at least one student has a device larger than a phone, and I ask them to try one of the activities together, then we come back together and talk about it.

We use jamboard for them to collaborate online to build mental maps or graphic organizers together that they can then link back to later. I just post the links on our LMS home page.

Again, it isn't perfect, they still screw around from time to time, but mostly it keeps the students engaged, helps me stay organized, and turns the electronics into a learning tool rather than a learning distraction.

[kaysixteen]

we're just gonna have to agree to disagree as to whether 18yos are properly 'adults'... I have been beating this personal hobbyhorse on these fora, old and new, for 15 years.    I think that lowering the legal age of adulthood was one of the worst public policy decisions we ever took in this country, and 50 years later, with all we now know about adolescent brain development, it looks even worse.

[Caracal]

we're just gonna have to agree to disagree as to whether 18yos are properly 'adults'... I have been beating this personal hobbyhorse on these fora, old and new, for 15 years.    I think that lowering the legal age of adulthood was one of the worst public policy decisions we ever took in this country, and 50 years later, with all we now know about adolescent brain development, it looks even worse.

1. In practical terms, I would teach my classes differently if all of my students were over 25.

2. I want to relate to my students as adults who I have a professional relationship with.

There's obviously some tension between these two points, but I try to maintain both of them. Many of the students I teach need structure and incentives to do the things they should be doing and providing those with things like reading quizzes and attendance grades creates a better class experience. However, I think the way you help adolescents develop adulting skills is by giving them space and assuming they are capable of making good choices. Will they always make them? Of course not, but micromanaging isn't going to result in better outcomes.

In terms of note taking, I really don't like the idea of prescribed methods of taking notes in college. If we are talking about a college success course or something, then sure, you can teach particular ways of taking notes so students have those in their toolbox. However, in a content focused class, students should be able to take notes that work for them.

[mamselle]

Carcal, can you mention, broadly, what field you're in?

I've forgotten, but I'm wondering if it might be the case that variations in approach are field-specific?

ETA: Ah, ignore, found a recent note in the next thread I opened!

M.

[Puget]

However, I think the way you help adolescents develop adulting skills is by giving them space and assuming they are capable of making good choices. Will they always make them? Of course not, but micromanaging isn't going to result in better outcomes.

This, very much this!
I study this age group ("emerging adults"). Yes, their executive function is not fully developed. No, that doesn't mean treating them like children is appropriate. They need to learn to be adults by practicing being adults, in a setting where the stakes are relatively low, and college can provide that (e.g., doing poorly on an exam vs. getting fired). We can help them by teaching some of these skills and providing some scaffolding, but micromanaging just keeps them depending on adults as surrogate frontal lobes rather than learning to manage themselves.

[mamselle]

I like the phrase, "surrogate frontal lobes...."

;--}

M.

[kaysixteen]

I didn't say I wanted to treat them like children.   But

1) they are adolescents, and that ain't the same as adults, and

2) I do have a responsibility to take all reasonable steps to maximize their learning of the material I am teaching.

[OneMoreYear]

I didn't say I wanted to treat them like children.   But

1) they are adolescents, and that ain't the same as adults, and

2) I do have a responsibility to take all reasonable steps to maximize their learning of the material I am teaching.

1) as Puget stated below, traditional age college students are generally considered "emerging adults," we need to be mindful of the developmental tasks and the developmental changes that occur of this life period rather than continuing to see our students as adolescents as they would be in high school.  While it's true that 18 is not a magic number in terms of development (it's not a dichotomous change on the 18th birthday), it is a different life stage when individuals graduate from high school and make choices to enter into college (or the military or the workforce, or a combination of these) and a period of continued executive functioning growth.

2. I think there is the crux of the situation and where educators will differ. What are the reasonable policies for this course set-up, this content, and these particular students? I assume that my colleagues at my Uni and on the fora are making the appropriate pedagogical decisions for their course given these considerations, and that policies will differ between courses.  I don't use a laptop ban in mine for a variety of reasons that posters have stated here (e.g., disability considerations, access to electronic resources on the LMS during class, individual differences in typing vs handwriting skills), including the fact that one of the authors on a study which is often cited in support of laptop bans has made it clear that his results should not be used to support a whole-sale laptop ban, and that he does not ban laptops in his classroom.

[downer]

I have no responsibility to maximize my students learning. I give them the opportunity to learn. It's up to them if they want to maximize or problem solve with their education.

My responsibility is to be good enough.

If I am feeling sufficiently motivated, I will go above and beyond. But my motivation depends on the school's efforts to motivate me.

[kaysixteen]

So, if your students do not learn your content to a reasonable degree, how do you determine that you have, in fact, been 'good enough'.