Idiots on Airplanes and Other Travel Commentary

[dismalist]

I recently learned that planes could be more than 50% lighter if they didn't have passenger windows. Will an airline ever offer that option for a lower price?

Emirates is one airline that floated this idea, suggesting that video screens could be used instead of windows. One of the few remaining joys of flying is looking out the window, so I am not a fan. Per some article I just read, the advantage of a truly windowless plane is that the structure of the fuselage would be less complex without window openings. If you want to know what poorly designed windows (or, to be more fair, windows designed before the stresses of pressurizing and depressurizing cabins were well understood), look into the fate of the de Havilland Comet. I do like planes that have cameras that you can call up on the entertainment screen, and if I were in charge there'd be all kinds of cameras for cool views. Who needs an inflight movie when you can see the cool views the pilots get?

The idea that the airlines, once they implemented such a plane, would lower fares because their costs have declined is fantasy. Airlines will charge what they can. Case in point: Fares are very high this summer, due both to higher fuel costs and insanely pent-up demand. I was thinking of popping up to Alaska this summer, but at $1200 to Anchorage r/t, I'll wait. Last I checked, it's a lot cheaper in October. Downside: It's October. Even then, inflation adjusted airfares now are still no where near what they were when I was a lad growing up in Alaska in the early 1970s.

Flying is sometimes frustrating, and it used to terrify me. Now I quite like it, I find airports fascinating for people watching, and once the plane is in the air and I can look at the window (if it's not cloudy/dark) I find it really relaxing. It's the getting on and off that's stressful. And while the golden age of steaks, smoking, and nonstop booze (and remarkably frequent crashes) are behind us, I will note that a six-hour cross country flight beats the hell out of riding the train cross country (I've done that three times, and it's really fun, but it's slow) or driving cross-country (ditto) or, honestly, crossing in a covered wagon. If our biggest problem is the lack of seat recline and that our favorite brand of gin isn't on offer, we really don't have much of a problem at all.

A lovely, lovely post, tee bee!

However to clear up a thing or two

-In competition, hell even in monopoly, when costs fall, prices fall.
-Temporary demand increases, such as in summers, will raise prices, and temporary demand declines, such as in winters, will lower prices.

More important,
-trains are [maybe once were] the best way to travel, ocean liners aside, and most important

-the biggest problem is really that my favorite wine is not on offer! :-)

[Tee_Bee]

A lovely, lovely post, tee bee!

However to clear up a thing or two

-In competition, hell even in monopoly, when costs fall, prices fall.

Thanks! I guess I should have been clearer. I think airlines are always finding opportunities to cut costs to improve margins, and that demand may have more of an influence on fare pricing that the underlying cost structure. What I have in mind--and this isn't a great analogy--is the halcyon days of the early 1970s, when the 747 came on line and the "hump" was given over to piano bars, discos, rumpus rooms, or whatever, and the airlines were selling the plane as some sort of airborne ocean liner. That lasted until they realized you can just jam in more seats--well, maybe not jam, since the hump is often where first or business is located, but still. And the decreasing seat pitch (most coach seats in the 1970s were about 35 or 36 inches, now it's more like 30), lack of meal service, etc. means that they're doing what they can to beef up their margins. As they probably should, because, given the last twenty five years, if I ran an airline I'd make money when I can, sock away cash, and wait for the next huge downturn.

My entire argument is probably contradicted by the fact that, adjusted for inflation, flying is cheaper now than it was in the 1970s.

-the biggest problem is really that my favorite wine is not on offer! :-)

My wife and you would be on the very same page!

[AvidReader]

I need to travel between Europe and North America in August.

Cheapest one-way ticket: $245 (up from 2 weeks ago, when it was $205), for 4! flights in 37 hours, which includes changing airports in Oslo and New York.
Cheapest one-way ticket that doesn't include a leg on a budget airline is about $700 (without luggage), yet the cheapest return ticket is only $800. I have never understood why the return flight adds so little to the costs.

Also a note: my attitude towards flying changed tremendously the first time I got a credit card that offered airport lounge access. Having a quiet place to sit and work, with "free" snacks, makes a world of difference, primarily because there is usually a table for my laptop and I'm not balancing it on my knees.

AR.

[downer]

Most of the airports I've been in recently have charging stations where you can sit and work on a laptop on a surface. It's not necessarily quiet, but I generally have my earbuds in so that's not an issue.

One airport I was at was all table seating, with a screen for ordering food and drink at each seat. I'm not sure it is a great business model since I didn't see anyone using those screens to order anything. But it was nice to have a table.

Free airport wifi seems close to universal now, which is an important improvement.

[AvidReader]

A table makes such a difference to my productivity that I will pay airport rates for a beverage I don't really want/need, if I have to, in order to get an hour or two of such efficiency. But yes, some airports do have good spaces to sit that don't cost anything, and I really appreciate those!

AR.

[dismalist]

I need to travel between Europe and North America in August.

..
Cheapest one-way ticket that doesn't include a leg on a budget is about $700 (without luggage), yet the cheapest return ticket is only $800. I have never understood why the return flight adds so little to the costs.
irlin
...

Rule-of-thumb: If there's something you don''t understand about pricing, it's probably price discrimination!

It's about revenue. Airline is getting $800 for the round trip. Who travels one way? Business types who can't commit to a return date. They are paying an extra $300 for the privilege [$700 instead of $800/2 = $400].

[downer]

I sometimes travel with one way tickets when I'm doing a loop, such as New York -- Seattle -- LA -- New York. But often the cost makes that prohibitively expensive compared to two trips, NY -- Seattle and NY -- LA.

[mamselle]

If you're booking business travel, you're usually booking through a dedicated agency like Carlson Wagon-Lit, which plays all those one-ways off against each other internally (i.e., within your own company's account) or externally (i.e., their universe of clients).

They also do open-jaw arrangements where they sell back the other halves to someone else.

M.

[dismalist]

If you're booking business travel, you're usually booking through a dedicated agency like Carlson Wagon-Lit, which plays all those one-ways off against each other internally (i.e., within your own company's account) or externally (i.e., their universe of clients).

They also do open-jaw arrangements where they sell back the other halves to someone else.

M.

Called "arbitrage"! :-)

Hard to do with names on the tickets, though. Airlines must be cooperating. This is good: It means competition is getting intenser.

[fishbrains]

Hotels: Quit making your showers so f*cking complicated. I'm taking a shower, not flying the damn space shuttle! And vent the space, so I'm not sweating while toweling off. Jeepers.

[Langue_doc]

Hotels: Quit making your showers so f*cking complicated. I'm taking a shower, not flying the damn space shuttle! And vent the space, so I'm not sweating while toweling off. Jeepers.

Or uncomplicated. A year or so ago, I was given a room with a shower designed for people in wheelchairs, which resulted in the bathroom floor being flooded. When I called the front desk, they sent an employee from housekeeping, unmasked, with a bunch of towels, with the suggestion that I could use those towels to wipe down the floor, and that I could also ask for more towels to wipe down the floor during the rest of my stay. I made sure that the employee wiped down the floor, and checked out a day earlier. This was not a budget-friendly hotel. Later that year, in another city, I had to prop the sliding door shut with one foot, so that the door remained shut while taking a shower! This too, was most definitely not a budget-friendly hotel, but I didn't have other complaints, so have stayed there at least a couple of times after that experience.

[fishbrains]

Is there a female equivalent term to "man-spreading" on an airplane? The woman next to me couldn't really fit her bag under the seat in front of her (even though there was plenty of room in the overheads), so she kept trying to put her leg around her bag and under the seat in front of me. I kept nudging her foot back. An odd, two-hour game of Footsie there.

What the f*ck is wrong with people?

[Sun_Worshiper]

I've come to hate flying Southwest. The hunger games system of boarding was always annoying, but my irritation jumped to another level last time, when several people who boarded in Group A tried to save seats for their family members who were waiting at the gate.

[dismalist]

I've come to hate flying Southwest. The hunger games system of boarding was always annoying, but my irritation jumped to another level last time, when several people who boarded in Group A tried to save seats for their family members who were waiting at the gate.

Interesting. I haven't flown in years, so I googled Southwest boarding procedure. It calls itself "open seating". In different words, "free seating choice". Of course, nothing is free. The A,B, etc stuff can merely limit the competition for seating to various groups of people.

Such will always be gameable and gamed.

The solution is to auction off the seats! :-)

[Hegemony]

My uni now okays Business Class fares for flights over 8 hours (assuming you have the money in your various research accounts). I am here to say that the Polaris lounges are very heaven. There are six of them in the U.S., and they're for Business class transatlantic flyers in United. Huge lovely buffets of free food. (Unlike the usual United Club lounges, which have soup and piddly little snacks.) Not crowded. Nap rooms!