Volunteers wanted: assessment discussion

[Mercudenton]

Hi - I am doing a short summer project that is exploring the role of external academic assurance in the UK (e.g. external examiners, moderation of questions and assignments), and asks whether this kind of external moderation: (a) has been modelled (e.g. at a local level) anywhere within US higher education; and (b) would enhance US higher education, particularly by offering an alternative paradigm to the US "assessment" model of quality assurance?

If there is anyone who feels they have something interesting to say on this topic (perhaps someone with experience in both systems, for example) I'd like to set up some Zoom calls for informal conversation.

Again, the project is just an internal summer grant so I am not looking for world experts!

[mamselle]

This is not a do-your-research-for-you kind of forum.

For starters, you may want to check the IRB rules on such sources at your school.

M.

[ciao_yall]

Hi - I am doing a short summer project that is exploring the role of external academic assurance in the UK (e.g. external examiners, moderation of questions and assignments), and asks whether this kind of external moderation: (a) has been modelled (e.g. at a local level) anywhere within US higher education; and (b) would enhance US higher education, particularly by offering an alternative paradigm to the US "assessment" model of quality assurance?

If there is anyone who feels they have something interesting to say on this topic (perhaps someone with experience in both systems, for example) I'd like to set up some Zoom calls for informal conversation.

Again, the project is just an internal summer grant so I am not looking for world experts!

Have you started with a literature review?

[ergative]

Is this a research question or a professional practices question?

My IRB training was pretty clear that if a company is undertaking a survey or whatever to improve its internal practices, it doesn't need IRB approval. So, I would infer, if an institution is looking at implementing some sort of moderation/external review of its grading policies in order to improve its grading practices, that would be a similar case, and wouldn't require IRB approval.

[Puget]

Is this a research question or a professional practices question?

My IRB training was pretty clear that if a company is undertaking a survey or whatever to improve its internal practices, it doesn't need IRB approval. So, I would infer, if an institution is looking at implementing some sort of moderation/external review of its grading policies in order to improve its grading practices, that would be a similar case, and wouldn't require IRB approval.

This is correct, but even if it is research focus-group type research is exempt under the common rule (exemption 2). So I see no issue here (but have no expertise to lend on OP's research topic).

(mamselle, I know you mean well, but sometimes you jump in on topics that you aren't an expert on and cause confusion.)

[mamselle]

Thanks.

I've actually worked with IRB situations, that wasn't out of the blue.

Also, more to the point, there were many discussion on the old forum about people playing us as guinea pigs, and that was one of the questions raised.

So, again, not uninformed.

M.

[ergative]

Is this a research question or a professional practices question?

My IRB training was pretty clear that if a company is undertaking a survey or whatever to improve its internal practices, it doesn't need IRB approval. So, I would infer, if an institution is looking at implementing some sort of moderation/external review of its grading policies in order to improve its grading practices, that would be a similar case, and wouldn't require IRB approval.

This is correct, but even if it is research focus-group type research is exempt under the common rule (exemption 2). So I see no issue here (but have no expertise to lend on OP's research topic).

My grad school institution required ethical approval even for exempt research. We had to fill out a form and jump through hoops to prove it was exempt. Once a project I was waiting for approval for changed its category from 'expedited' to 'exempt', and they made me rewrite the application and resubmit it, so I had to go back to the end of the line as a result of my project being recategorized to something less stringent. I'm still bitter about that.

[Puget]

Thanks.

I've actually worked with IRB situations, that wasn't out of the blue.

Also, more to the point, there were many discussion on the old forum about people playing us as guinea pigs, and that was one of the questions raised.

So, again, not uninformed.

M.

It wasn't meant as an attack. I often have to remind myself not to try to weigh in unless I actually have the expertise. I understand you had some past experience with an IRB, but IRB regulations have changed a lot in the last few years with the revised common rule. Probably best to leave those questions to those of us who currently do human subjects research.

Per the second point, I don't really see the difference between the OPs post and many others asking for people's experience and options on this or that in academia here (so basically, everything). This is quite different from soliciting participation in something unrelated to higher ed topics. If it was the suggestion to connect off the forum that you were reacting to, hasn't that regularly been done with meetups in the past?

[Puget]

Is this a research question or a professional practices question?

My IRB training was pretty clear that if a company is undertaking a survey or whatever to improve its internal practices, it doesn't need IRB approval. So, I would infer, if an institution is looking at implementing some sort of moderation/external review of its grading policies in order to improve its grading practices, that would be a similar case, and wouldn't require IRB approval.

This is correct, but even if it is research focus-group type research is exempt under the common rule (exemption 2). So I see no issue here (but have no expertise to lend on OP's research topic).

My grad school institution required ethical approval even for exempt research. We had to fill out a form and jump through hoops to prove it was exempt. Once a project I was waiting for approval for changed its category from 'expedited' to 'exempt', and they made me rewrite the application and resubmit it, so I had to go back to the end of the line as a result of my project being recategorized to something less stringent. I'm still bitter about that.

That's frustrating -- NIH and the other fed funders have tried to discourage this sort of IRB over-reach on exempt research, but some institutions have been slow to change.

[ergative]

Is this a research question or a professional practices question?

My IRB training was pretty clear that if a company is undertaking a survey or whatever to improve its internal practices, it doesn't need IRB approval. So, I would infer, if an institution is looking at implementing some sort of moderation/external review of its grading policies in order to improve its grading practices, that would be a similar case, and wouldn't require IRB approval.

This is correct, but even if it is research focus-group type research is exempt under the common rule (exemption 2). So I see no issue here (but have no expertise to lend on OP's research topic).

My grad school institution required ethical approval even for exempt research. We had to fill out a form and jump through hoops to prove it was exempt. Once a project I was waiting for approval for changed its category from 'expedited' to 'exempt', and they made me rewrite the application and resubmit it, so I had to go back to the end of the line as a result of my project being recategorized to something less stringent. I'm still bitter about that.

That's frustrating -- NIH and the other fed funders have tried to discourage this sort of IRB over-reach on exempt research, but some institutions have been slow to change.

To be fair to my grad school institution, that particular outrage was (*ahem*) some time ago. They may have improved since then.

[Parasaurolophus]

Is this a research question or a professional practices question?

My IRB training was pretty clear that if a company is undertaking a survey or whatever to improve its internal practices, it doesn't need IRB approval. So, I would infer, if an institution is looking at implementing some sort of moderation/external review of its grading policies in order to improve its grading practices, that would be a similar case, and wouldn't require IRB approval.

This is correct, but even if it is research focus-group type research is exempt under the common rule (exemption 2). So I see no issue here (but have no expertise to lend on OP's research topic).

My grad school institution required ethical approval even for exempt research. We had to fill out a form and jump through hoops to prove it was exempt. Once a project I was waiting for approval for changed its category from 'expedited' to 'exempt', and they made me rewrite the application and resubmit it, so I had to go back to the end of the line as a result of my project being recategorized to something less stringent. I'm still bitter about that.

That's frustrating -- NIH and the other fed funders have tried to discourage this sort of IRB over-reach on exempt research, but some institutions have been slow to change.

We're tiny and irrelevant, but I'm on our research ethics board. Exempt applications are weeded out (and returned to sender) before they even get sent out for review. If one sneaks through, we just send it back.

(And yes, interal quality assurance stuff is exempt up north, too, although you can shade into needing approval depending on how the specifics are articulated [being a somewhat rinkydink institution, our applicants aren't always great at walking that line]).

[Mercudenton]

This is not a do-your-research-for-you kind of forum.

For starters, you may want to check the IRB rules on such sources at your school.

M.

Hi - I hope this is not a do-your-research-for-you kind of question! I simply want to talk with colleagues who have had experience or insight into this issue. This is not a formal piece of research. It is a summer grant to faculty that encourages their professional development in the area of teaching and learning practices. I hope that this forum might be a good place to connect with colleagues beyond my immediate circle to garner insight and perspectives. Since this is an informal fact-finding exercise colleague-to-colleague, I did not think that it would need IRB approval any more than any post on Fora! Sorry if I was not clear about my purposes. Sorry if I did not explain the intent of my request clearly enough. I probably should not have used the title "volunteers wanted" as that maybe makes it sound more of a formal project than it really is.

[Mercudenton]

Have you started with a literature review?

I'm not an expert on educational research - as per previous post, I'm just a humanities faculty member exploring a question as part of a summer professional development grant. So I may not be looking in all the right places. But in the places I have looked I don't see anything specifically about this topic.

[Mercudenton]

Per the second point, I don't really see the difference between the OPs post and many others asking for people's experience and options on this or that in academia here (so basically, everything). This is quite different from soliciting participation in something unrelated to higher ed topics. If it was the suggestion to connect off the forum that you were reacting to, hasn't that regularly been done with meetups in the past?

Puget - yes thanks, that was what I was thinking. It seems the forum is a place to connect colleague-to-colleague. The intent of inviting personal conversation with people is simply that it's hard to have a good conversation one-to-one in a forum. In relation to the idea of using people here as guinea pigs -- well, I am simply one guinea pig wanting to talk with others about their experiences. :-)

[ergative]

We're tiny and irrelevant, but I'm on our research ethics board. Exempt applications are weeded out (and returned to sender) before they even get sent out for review. If one sneaks through, we just send it back.

(And yes, interal quality assurance stuff is exempt up north, too, although you can shade into needing approval depending on how the specifics are articulated [being a somewhat rinkydink institution, our applicants aren't always great at walking that line]).

You're doing God's work. Keep it up.