CHE: Was this Latino professor racially profiled?

[Katrina Gulliver]

Dunno how anybody watches the video and takes the cops' side. Just simple common sense that he is telling the truth. ppl don't pull elaborate scams like that on cops.

Here, in the city, some institutions require everyone, faculty, staff, and students to swipe their campus IDs before entering the building. If you are locked out of your office, security might open the door for you provided you can show your campus ID once Security has opened the door to the office.

Yes, I've worked in places like that too. When I forgot my card I had to go to the security office, show my drivers license etc and prove who I was to be issued another. And the most obnoxious "just buzz me in, it's no big deal" people never seemed to grasp WHY we had security in the first place.

[fizzycist]

Dunno how anybody watches the video and takes the cops' side. Just simple common sense that he is telling the truth. ppl don't pull elaborate scams like that on cops.

cops cost a fortune, the least they can do is open the fucking door to the hallway for someone who pretty clearly works there.

All true.

But was this racial profiling or simply a department which is a bit too anal retentive?

I dunno, but my money is on if it was an attractive, well-dressed female professor, the door gets opened.

[Wahoo Redux]

Dunno how anybody watches the video and takes the cops' side. Just simple common sense that he is telling the truth. ppl don't pull elaborate scams like that on cops.

cops cost a fortune, the least they can do is open the fucking door to the hallway for someone who pretty clearly works there.

All true.

But was this racial profiling or simply a department which is a bit too anal retentive?

I dunno, but my money is on if it was an attractive, well-dressed female professor, the door gets opened.

Really?  Seems a little prejudicial unless you can point to a specific example.   

[fizzycist]

Dunno how anybody watches the video and takes the cops' side. Just simple common sense that he is telling the truth. ppl don't pull elaborate scams like that on cops.

cops cost a fortune, the least they can do is open the fucking door to the hallway for someone who pretty clearly works there.

All true.

But was this racial profiling or simply a department which is a bit too anal retentive?

I dunno, but my money is on if it was an attractive, well-dressed female professor, the door gets opened.

Really?  Seems a little prejudicial unless you can point to a specific example.

The basis are my many personal interactions with police in my years. You can start with a prior of everyone is treated equally if you like, but when you have a few dozen experiences that don't match that model, it becomes bad logic not to update.

Plus I'm not sure the expectation of equal treatment is reasonable. If a cop is obsessed about the 10^-6 probability that an elaborate scam is being played on them, then they may naturally make scared decisions based on the apparent attributes of the person-- in this case a decent sized middle-aged man with darker skin, no accent, and a somewhat confident demeanor.

The problem is the cop should not be wasting everybody's time with the 10^-6 tail. Just do your job (serving the campus community) and open the fucking door.

[Langue_doc]

Dunno how anybody watches the video and takes the cops' side. Just simple common sense that he is telling the truth. ppl don't pull elaborate scams like that on cops.

cops cost a fortune, the least they can do is open the fucking door to the hallway for someone who pretty clearly works there.

All true.

But was this racial profiling or simply a department which is a bit too anal retentive?

I dunno, but my money is on if it was an attractive, well-dressed female professor, the door gets opened.

Really?  Seems a little prejudicial unless you can point to a specific example.

The basis are my many personal interactions with police in my years. You can start with a prior of everyone is treated equally if you like, but when you have a few dozen experiences that don't match that model, it becomes bad logic not to update.

Plus I'm not sure the expectation of equal treatment is reasonable. If a cop is obsessed about the 10^-6 probability that an elaborate scam is being played on them, then they may naturally make scared decisions based on the apparent attributes of the person-- in this case a decent sized middle-aged man with darker skin, no accent, and a somewhat confident demeanor.

The problem is the cop should not be wasting everybody's time with the 10^-6 tail. Just do your job (serving the campus community) and open the fucking door.

He was doing his job. It was the professor who didn't have a valid campus ID and then used the race card on the minority officer to gain sympathy despite the fact that the decision was made by the minority officer's supervisor.

[Katrina Gulliver]

One of my colleagues had a knife pulled on them, in their office. I think we can all imagine worse scenarios. There's a reason for security.

[marshwiggle]

Plus I'm not sure the expectation of equal treatment is reasonable. If a cop is obsessed about the 10^-6 probability that an elaborate scam is being played on them, then they may naturally make scared decisions based on the apparent attributes of the person-- in this case a decent sized middle-aged man with darker skin, no accent, and a somewhat confident demeanor.

The problem is the cop should not be wasting everybody's time with the 10^-6 tail. Just do your job (serving the campus community) and open the fucking door.

10^-6? "I lost my ID and my driver's license a while ago and haven't bothered to replace them yet?"

That argument makes the probability of a scam much closer to 1. Anytime someone loses their wallet they're on the phone the same day cancelling credit cards, getting ID replaced, etc. Waiting weeks to do so is really unusual.

[fizzycist]

Plus I'm not sure the expectation of equal treatment is reasonable. If a cop is obsessed about the 10^-6 probability that an elaborate scam is being played on them, then they may naturally make scared decisions based on the apparent attributes of the person-- in this case a decent sized middle-aged man with darker skin, no accent, and a somewhat confident demeanor.

The problem is the cop should not be wasting everybody's time with the 10^-6 tail. Just do your job (serving the campus community) and open the fucking door.

10^-6? "I lost my ID and my driver's license a while ago and haven't bothered to replace them yet?"

That argument makes the probability of a scam much closer to 1. Anytime someone loses their wallet they're on the phone the same day cancelling credit cards, getting ID replaced, etc. Waiting weeks to do so is really unusual.

Where does it say weeks? He seems to say in the video that he lost it that weekend. Plus have you lost a driver's license recently? You don't just roll by the DMV the next day and pick a new one up.

Ya'll are reaching hard for ways to hate on this prof and take the cops side. It's really weird that's the side you gravitate towards, aren't you professors?

[Caracal]

One of my colleagues had a knife pulled on them, in their office. I think we can all imagine worse scenarios. There's a reason for security.

Was the knife pulled on him by a guy who got a security officer to let him into the building because he looked eerily similar to a man pictured on the department website and then knew the way to that faculty members office, where the door was unlocked, the guy's keys were on the desk and more eerily identical pictures were all over the walls? Otherwise, this doesn't seem like a really relevant story.

[marshwiggle]

Ya'll are reaching hard for ways to hate on this prof and take the cops side. It's really weird that's the side you gravitate towards, aren't you professors?

It's because of my being in a similar situation that I take the *cop's side.  In my office there are all kinds of things that shouldn't get out (tests, student grades, etc.) I am always a bit concerned about stories of how easily a student got security to let them into a classroom or lab to look for something.  (At times, I've had a lab set up for a lab test, so a student getting let in there would be bad, especially if I had no idea that it happened.)


*As has been pointed out, it was the supervisor's decision. I want my TAs to use their judgement, but I also encourage them to consult me if they are ever unsure of what to do, and then it's up to me. Once the cop contacted the supervisor, it was entirely the supervisor's call. So unless you're faulting the cop for contacting the supervisor, the cop isn't at fault here.

[Katrina Gulliver]

One of my colleagues had a knife pulled on them, in their office. I think we can all imagine worse scenarios. There's a reason for security.

Was the knife pulled on him by a guy who got a security officer to let him into the building because he looked eerily similar to a man pictured on the department website and then knew the way to that faculty members office, where the door was unlocked, the guy's keys were on the desk and more eerily identical pictures were all over the walls? Otherwise, this doesn't seem like a really relevant story.

it was a disgruntled former student. Who I am sure knew his way around. In response, security was tightened and swipe card entry was required.

Pretty relevant since the reason these security systems exist is previous incidents (either on that campus, or other institutions).

[Langue_doc]

Plus have you lost a driver's license recently? You don't just roll by the DMV the next day and pick a new one up.

In our state, you are required to file a police complaint immediately. You can do so online. I'm assuming that other states also allow you to fill out the necessary forms online either at the DMV website or the police website.

Driving around without having made any attempt to report a lost driver's license sounds rather irresponsible.

As for security concerns, there have been incidents in NYC where unauthorized people have gained entry into buildings. In one incident reported in the local news, a person unaffiliated with the school tried to attack two female students in the women's restroom on a Saturday. Fortunatley for the students a professor who was walking by heard their screams and managed to hold onto the assailant until security arrived.

Playing the race card when the professor didn't have the required campus ID sounds rather reprehensible especially when the decision was made not by the minority cop who was accused of being racist, but by a supervisor who had no information about the professor's ethnicity, but was merely going by the protocols set by the school.

[Wahoo Redux]

Ya'll are reaching hard for ways to hate on this prof and take the cops side. It's really weird that's the side you gravitate towards, aren't you professors?

Come on, man.  I know you have been frustrated by cops in your own life somehow, but no one is pouring "hate" on the prof.  People here are being reasonable given the facts at hand.  One doesn't have to take a "side" either.

There are bad police, certainly, but those of us who live in a society in which laws are enforced to our benefit should thank the cops.  Feel like hunting down any mass shooters yourself?

And I just wanted to know if peeps thought there was racial animus here.  I don't see it, personally.  I see several levels of our increasingly paranoid and impersonal society myself.

[Caracal]

Plus have you lost a driver's license recently? You don't just roll by the DMV the next day and pick a new one up.

In our state, you are required to file a police complaint immediately. You can do so online. I'm assuming that other states also allow you to fill out the necessary forms online either at the DMV website or the police website.

Driving around without having made any attempt to report a lost driver's license sounds rather irresponsible.

I'm sure that's technically true, and maybe you're the kind of person who when something irritating and inconvenient happens, immediately goes and figures out exactly what steps you are supposed to take and follows them to the letter. That's great, but lots of us just don't operate like that and it doesn't mean that we are lawbreaking reprobates. In most cases, if my wallet was stolen, it would never occur to me to file a police report. It isn't like I'm going to make an insurance claim or I think the police are going to put their top people on it. Obviously I would cancel my credit cards, but you don't need to file a police report to do that. It makes sense that it's required to get a new license, but I would probably learn that when I went to the DMV site to figure out what I needed to bring with me before I went down there.

As for driving without a physical license, it really isn't a big deal. Driving when you don't have a valid license at all can get you in big trouble. Just not having the license on you is in the same category as a minor traffic ticket. A police officer can just look up the record on their computer and quickly verify that you do have one. I imagine in many cases if someone was stopped and explained that their wallet was stolen and they hadn't had time to go to the DMV yet, the cop would just give them a warning. As Fizzycist said, the DMV is not like going to the drug store and people actually do have jobs and responsibilities.

I'm sure that if the cop had just taken a few easy and common sense steps to verify that the professor was a faculty member (look him up on the system, walk with him to his office where his keys were on his desk and all the pictures of him and his family were on the wall) and the end result had just been that Osuana was a few minutes late to this meeting, he probably would have happily told the story as one of those things where a series of absent minded missteps compound on each other and you end up in some ridiculous situation.

The broader point here is that the professor and the police officer are actually employees of the same university. Their job isn't just to make sure that the wrong people can't get into the building, but also to ensure that a professor who has a meeting with some transfer students can get in. There were all kinds of easy ways to balance those two jobs here. What it comes down to is that the police seemed to think that this guy wasn't really someone who was part of the University community and should be viewed as a potential criminal rather than someone who had done a series of boneheaded things but did need to go have this meeting.

[marshwiggle]

The broader point here is that the professor and the police officer are actually employees of the same university. Their job isn't just to make sure that the wrong people can't get into the building, but also to ensure that a professor who has a meeting with some transfer students can get in.

Letting people into spaces isn't typically part of the job for security; especially into prof's offices. That's why profs have keys.

There were all kinds of easy ways to balance those two jobs here. What it comes down to is that the police seemed to think that this guy wasn't really someone who was part of the University community and should be viewed as a potential criminal rather than someone who had done a series of boneheaded things but did need to go have this meeting.

The point is that the apparent "sequence of boneheaded things" is exactly the kind of story someone would make up if they were trying to do something illicit. Seriously, how often would someone lose their wallet and lock themselves out of their office? (Unless they lost their wallet and keys in the same situation, in which case, they'd have been contacting the institution to get a new set of keys.)