PhD student recruitment

[sambaprof]

As I was looking for potential PhD students to research with me in my US-based University as early as Spring 2023 (January 2023) start to support my funded projects as well as providing support from the startup fund, I had chance to interview an international PhD applicant who mentioned that she is looking to start PhD as soon as possible in  Computer Science as she got dismissed from the PhD in current university within US. After looking at the transcript,  the student joined the PhD studies in her current university in 2018, the GPA has constantly dropped from 3.875 in Fall 2018 to 3.225 in Fall 2021 to 2.688 in Spring 2022 (after 2 F's in Spring 2022). Student is telling that she went to depression in Spring 2022 due to isolation and had to take medicines etc.,

The student has also served as instructor of record every semester from Fall 2020 to Summer 2022.

The student had 3 publications from 2020 to 2022, though none of them as first author and also had served as chair of "woman in Computer Science" club at the current university from Fall 2020 to Spring 2021.

Student is mentioning that she is now out of depression and is confident to handle the PhD studies and will do good to complete with the experience and the education that she has received so far. While talking the student appears to be as good as other students that I interviewed. One good thing with this student is that the student is available as early as Spring 2023 and is already in US (hopefully there are no visa related issues).

Please advise if it is advisable to support the student. Is it worth a try to reach out to the students' advisor in the current university (of course after getting the consent from the particular student)

Having said that it is up to the Department graduate program committee to decide if the particular applicant is fit for the program and admit in the program.

[research_prof]

Personally, I would not risk it.

[Hibush]

As a director of grad studies for the moment, I've see both ends of situations like this. PhD students losing momentum is one thing. Applicants who look good "right now" but with some red flags is the other.

In the former case, the student needs to figure out what they really want to do. The isolation and depression are part of the story, but rarely the underlying issue. The underlying issue is that they are not well suited to becoming an independent researcher. That is an uncommon trait, and you don't discover the real aptitude until several years into PhD research. A positive and constructive new direction is appropriate, because this is a brilliant and talented person in whom you have a substantial investment.

In the latter case, I try to counsel prospective advisors out of it with horror stories from their peers. A grad student isn't just a big financial investment it is also a big investment of your time. The opportunity cost of an unproductive stress-producing student is huge compared to a productive pride-producing student.

[sambaprof]

As a director of grad studies for the moment, I've see both ends of situations like this. PhD students losing momentum is one thing. Applicants who look good "right now" but with some red flags is the other.

In the former case, the student needs to figure out what they really want to do. The isolation and depression are part of the story, but rarely the underlying issue. The underlying issue is that they are not well suited to becoming an independent researcher. That is an uncommon trait, and you don't discover the real aptitude until several years into PhD research. A positive and constructive new direction is appropriate, because this is a brilliant and talented person in whom you have a substantial investment.

In the latter case, I try to counsel prospective advisors out of it with horror stories from their peers. A grad student isn't just a big financial investment it is also a big investment of your time. The opportunity cost of an unproductive stress-producing student is huge compared to a productive pride-producing student.

Thanks Hilbush for the response. However, I am not clear what is your suggestion.. support the student or dont support the student

[Kron3007]

Personally, I would not risk it.

Assuming you are a new faculty member, I would agree.  If I am wrong, and you are more established, I think you could consider taking the risk.

[Ruralguy]

I agree, but lean toward not taking the risk.

[Parasaurolophus]

Should sambaprof be worried about violating section 504 of the ADA? (Depression sometimes does, and sometimes doesn't, count for ADA purposes.) Since the depression was disclosed as part of the application process, I might worry about potential liability if the student is excluded on those grounds.

[sambaprof]

Should sambaprof be worried about violating section 504 of the ADA? (Depression sometimes does, and sometimes doesn't, count for ADA purposes.) Since the depression was disclosed as part of the application process, I might worry about potential liability if the student is excluded on those grounds.

More than depression, the issue here is the dismissal from PhD program (on academic reasons) with less than 3.0 GPA, after being in the program for 4 years.

[Hegemony]

I would contact the advisor for a more detailed and informative picture.

[fizzycist]

If the student was already admitted into your program then your program would have an obligation to give them a few chances. In that case,  you may consider it if you are willing to be the second-chance advisor (I usually take on these cases, but I have postdocs, senior grad students, etc. to help).

But here the student is not in your program,l. they just got kicked out somewhere else for poor performance. So I'm surprised you would even consider this. You have provided no reason to admit them and many reasons not to.

Unless there is something going unsaid (they are clearly very bright and have extensive training in your exact sub-sub-specialty?), then this isn't a close decision.

[theteacher]

The best indicator of future performance is past performance.

Assuming you are a new faculty member, I would agree.  If I am wrong, and you are more established, I think you could consider taking the risk.

Why would "more established" faculty members take such a risk?

[Kron3007]

The best indicator of future performance is past performance.

Assuming you are a new faculty member, I would agree.  If I am wrong, and you are more established, I think you could consider taking the risk.

Why would "more established" faculty members take such a risk?

A PhD student crashing and burning has a bigger impact on a faculty member when they are setting up their research program and are pre-tenure.  If you are more established, you may have a larger group to help with mentoring and there is simply less risk.

This assumes that the OP has a reason to be interested in this student in the first place.  If they don't, why would this post exist?

[Dismal]

No. Recruit the best student - not one who is available mid year due to poor performance in a previous program. Imagine being a new faculty with start up funds and spending those funds on someone who won't help move your research agenda forward.

[Kron3007]

No. Recruit the best student - not one who is available mid year due to poor performance in a previous program. Imagine being a new faculty with start up funds and spending those funds on someone who won't help move your research agenda forward.

Not just money either, also the time.  I had a fully funded international PhD student when I was new.  They ended up failing their comps twice, and being kicked out of the program.  This didn't cost me much, but the time I spent trying to help them was massive. 

[Kron3007]

No. Recruit the best student - not one who is available mid year due to poor performance in a previous program. Imagine being a new faculty with start up funds and spending those funds on someone who won't help move your research agenda forward.