Is Queen Elizabeth in a coffin or casket?

[nebo113]

The media uses the term  coffin as the object in which the Queen lies.  A coffin is a very specific construction with six sides.  A casket is  a rectangular box.

Is the term being used interchangeable with casket in the UK, or is she in a coffin?

[mamselle]

Usually in recent Western usage, a coffin is the older, pine-box enclosure used for a shrouded body alone. A casket is anything enclosing that, including, in some uncareful uses, up to the vault that encases the whole thing in an airtight underground package.

"Coffins" may have several layers, as in Egyptian burials, although technically, only the layer near the body ought to be called a coffin, at least from a Western perspective.

Coffins made of wood are biodegradable, which is why early (colonial Am., in particular) tall gravestones tip in the direction of the burial space: the stones are rooted by extensions below ground,  and without the full pressure of the (now-rotten) coffin, the stone's equilibrium is easily disturbed.

Caskets, usually metal or having a more reinforced exterior, do not 'give way' so the stone's upright balance is reinforced and more stable.

However, except for editorial care about keeping the usage clear in analytical writing, the terms are often used interchangeably,  or even inconsistently in different practices. I've done no work on African, South American, or Asian burial practices, so analysts of those cultures' objects may well use different distinctions, or have different structural elements to describe.

M.

[nebo113]

Thanks, Mamselle.  It's my impression that casket is used in the US and coffin in the UK.  I do wonder why?

[mamselle]

Because the Atlantic Ocean is a brick wall, not the fluid body of water everyone thinks it is....?

;--}

M.

[Parasaurolophus]

Thanks, Mamselle.  It's my impression that casket is used in the US and coffin in the UK.  I do wonder why?

We say 'coffin' in Canada, FWIW.

[mamselle]

It could also be because of changes in the funerary industry that became a more developed institution in the US after the 1950s (see Jessica Mitford's book on this).

The older use was almost always "coffin," since molded caskets were a mid-to-late 19th c. trend that became stronger in the US (where there was more burial space available) vs. Euro/UK areas where limited land space sometimes meant that graves could be re-used once the decomposed wooden containers and their contents had truly become dust.

I've heard, but have not confirmed, that there were two- or three-century limits on gravesite re-use, in Europe and Old England, which would be consistent with that, as well.

This journal may track some of those issues as well:

   https://credo.library.umass.edu/search?q=association+gravestone+markers&x=0&y=0

M.
 

[nebo113]

Thanks, Mamselle.  It's my impression that casket is used in the US and coffin in the UK.  I do wonder why?

We say 'coffin' in Canada, FWIW.

Interesting, thank you.

[glowdart]

Vampires sleep in coffins.

People get buried in caskets.

[Dismal]

I've been reading about the deaths of previous queens. Queen Victoria wasn't embalmed and her coffin was quite smelly and so charcoal was used to offset this problem.

Then Elizabeth I - she died at age 44 and multiple stories say that her head and body exploded while in her coffin.
"During the period in question, Southwell reports how there was a loud 'crack' from the coffin as Elizabeth's 'body and head' broke open from the pressures of gases released as the corpse rotted."
https://thetudortravelguide.com/2019/07/20/the-death-and-burial-of-elizabeth-i/

[nebo113]

Vampires sleep in coffins.

People get buried in caskets.

Ergo:  the Queen is a vampire? 

[mamselle]

I've been reading about the deaths of previous queens. Queen Victoria wasn't embalmed and her coffin was quite smelly and so charcoal was used to offset this problem.

Then Elizabeth I - she died at age 44 and multiple stories say that her head and body exploded while in her coffin.
"During the period in question, Southwell reports how there was a loud 'crack' from the coffin as Elizabeth's 'body and head' broke open from the pressures of gases released as the corpse rotted."
https://thetudortravelguide.com/2019/07/20/the-death-and-burial-of-elizabeth-i/

Sez I, as both a tour guide and a gravestone researcher, you want to take most of what's written in those booklets with a bucket-and-a-hslf of salt.

It's among the frustrations of the work that people will say anything outrageous, and rush it into print or proclaim it loudly across the street when those of us who try to do responsible work have to take longer to be sure of our facts, and speak less flamboyantly, to behave more seemingly among the deceased.

M.

[apl68]

I've been reading about the deaths of previous queens. Queen Victoria wasn't embalmed and her coffin was quite smelly and so charcoal was used to offset this problem.

Then Elizabeth I - she died at age 44 and multiple stories say that her head and body exploded while in her coffin.
"During the period in question, Southwell reports how there was a loud 'crack' from the coffin as Elizabeth's 'body and head' broke open from the pressures of gases released as the corpse rotted."
https://thetudortravelguide.com/2019/07/20/the-death-and-burial-of-elizabeth-i/

Sez I, as both a tour guide and a gravestone researcher, you want to take most of what's written in those booklets with a bucket-and-a-hslf of salt.

It's among the frustrations of the work that people will say anything outrageous, and rush it into print or proclaim it loudly across the street when those of us who try to do responsible work have to take longer to be sure of our facts, and speak less flamboyantly, to behave more seemingly among the deceased.

M.

Yes, popular history's tendency to focus on the lurid--including stories that may or may not be true--can make problems for those who try to do serious work with history.  I've always felt a need to try to  get the facts right when talking about people who are no longer around to speak for themselves.  I've found that so many Hollywood movies supposedly based on history gratuitously slander real-life figures by portraying them in ways that are at best debatable, at worst completely made up by writers who seem to have an axe to grind.

[clean]

For what it is worth, in PhD school we were to appraise a piece of university property and we walked it and found an old cemetery.  We didnt find it because of the stones, but the dips in the ground.
Modern day cemeteries promise 'perpetual care' of the grave site.  To ensure this, they require that the body (in a coffin, casket or basket!) be in a cement lined box.  That way, should the 'body container' fall apart, there wont be any dips in the cemetery that would require extra care or slow the work of mowing or trip anyone!

[mamselle]

Exactly.

M.

[nebo113]

For what it is worth, in PhD school we were to appraise a piece of university property and we walked it and found an old cemetery.  We didnt find it because of the stones, but the dips in the ground.
Modern day cemeteries promise 'perpetual care' of the grave site.  To ensure this, they require that the body (in a coffin, casket or basket!) be in a cement lined box.  That way, should the 'body container' fall apart, there wont be any dips in the cemetery that would require extra care or slow the work of mowing or trip anyone!

We have a small family cemetery with few requirements as to type of burial.  In fact, I could be wrapped in a shroud and buried in a hole dug by my cousin with a backhoe, if I chose.  However, my kin are still buying expensive vaults for interment.  Makes the local funeral home a lot of $$$$$!