how safe are you once you get your tenure position?

[mythbuster]

I'm in Florida. Most of the SUS schools still have tenure (except for the newest ones that never did). The new law instituted by the governor calls for our annual reviews to be reviewed by some sort of state panel to see if we are "acceptable". Or something like that- its very unclear. The general interpretation is it would give at least the governor the ability to fire a faculty member.  No one is quite sure how it will be implemented.

Since this law was passed, our union had a broad statement about fighting to protect our rights. Since then it's been crickets on this one. Also very little comment on the 2% response rate to the survey on academic climate and freedom of speech. That one didn't work out the way Ron and the GOP hoped- of course some will spin the low response rate as student voices being stifled.

I don't teach or research in an area that deals with race or social issues, so I'm not too worried about the review thing. But those who do need to keep their heads down from now until Ron DeSantis looses political power.

[darkstarrynight]

Article about potential suspension of tenure at Emporia State University: https://kansasreflector.com/2022/09/13/emporia-state-university-is-about-to-suspend-tenure-heres-why-you-should-care/?fbclid=IwAR0mmzThUgY3KADmpRmD84ZpbCwXmtjlFwwAqsXFlQCD8sYTsEEfSRkzVcw

[Ruralguy]

I've seen several colleagues essentially dismissed for dereliction or malfeasance in my 23 years. However, in almost all of these select few cases  the person was given the choice: full investigation, or resign. Almost everyone resigns.  So, officially the school gets to say "Nah...nothing to see here, the dude just decided to quit."

I doubt my college is particularly special in this regard. My guess is that most institutions have at least one case every few years depending on size. 

[Vid]

Ruralguy: how your school did learn about their case? for example if they committed a crime elsewhere, does the court inform their job/institution? Thanks.

[Ruralguy]

Most of the cases involved dereliction. I think there's something ongoing involving a potential crime. Sometimes an employer will be contacted since they might be witnesses to something (or there might be evidence on a computer, etc.. I can't say I know for sure). In a non tenured example, the transgression involved students , and when faced with the evidence from student testimony, the faculty member spilled the beans and resigned.

[ciao_yall]

I was tenured and a group of tenured faculty were laid off. Oddly enough, these were well-enrolled departments, including Computer Science, and areas in which it was generally hard to find faculty, such as Biology.

The argument was that we had too many full-time faculty for our enrollment, but English faculty were also laid off and there were waiting lists there.

So... go figure.

[librarygal]

The Framework was approved by the Kansas Board of Regents for Emporia State, with affected employees being notified by this Friday. https://kvoe.com/2022/09/15/emporia-state-seven-percent-of-staff-to-receive-suspension-dismissal-or-termination-notices-by-friday/

[glowdart]

Like the others, most of the firings I've seen have been for felonies, sexual harassment, stalking students, and the like. Usually the gross incompetence cases are told to find another job so that it can be announced that they moved on or retired.

Sometimes the criminal charges are just the cleaner excuse to get rid of problematic people — when they manage to never quite leave tangible evidence of perpetually reported malfeasance, then that public intoxication or public indecency arrest comes in handy.

[Vid]

glowdart: yeah I heard felonies, sexual harassment, and also putting students to work on the projects that are funded through the faculty's consultancy company.

So for the termination case, does HR fire the tenured faculty or the college?

Thank you.

[glowdart]

glowdart: yeah I heard felonies, sexual harassment, and also putting students to work on the projects that are funded through the faculty's consultancy company.

So for the termination case, does HR fire the tenured faculty or the college?

Thank you.

Everywhere I've been, HR & the uni work in tandem. The investigation meetings I've been aware of / privy to are with some combination of the faculty member, HR, campus legal, the faculty member's lawyer, Union if there is one, campus ombudsperson,  the Provost, campus security/ campus police, and sometimes a college Dean or department Head depending on institutional structure and who has supervisory authority or needs to be in the room.

There should be a process - my current university  & former ones had it laid out in the faculty handbook or in the personnel manual. The people and process may differ depending on the reason for the termination, but there's always an investigation and then some kind of decision delivery — whether that's HR or someone from the academic infrastructure will, I assume, depend on campus structures.

[Harlow2]

Emporia State (Kansas) has permission to proceed with firing tenured folks without financial exigency, according to today's Chronicle of Higher Ed. "Cuts have already begun" and reasons include "current or future market considerations."

[librarygal]

Yes.

https://www.ksnt.com/capitol-bureau/police-escort-esu-president-to-his-office-after-layoffs-protests/

https://www.ksnt.com/capitol-bureau/ks-higher-ed-officials-ignore-calls-to-stop-the-cuts-defend-layoff-plan/?ipid=promo-link-block1

http://www.esubulletin.com/news/we-must-stop-the-students-students-students-mantra-students-raise-concerns-over-faculty-dismissals/article_81156be4-3621-11ed-adf0-5bcf4fa6d7fb.html

[pgher]

glowdart: yeah I heard felonies, sexual harassment, and also putting students to work on the projects that are funded through the faculty's consultancy company.

So for the termination case, does HR fire the tenured faculty or the college?

Thank you.

Everywhere I've been, HR & the uni work in tandem. The investigation meetings I've been aware of / privy to are with some combination of the faculty member, HR, campus legal, the faculty member's lawyer, Union if there is one, campus ombudsperson,  the Provost, campus security/ campus police, and sometimes a college Dean or department Head depending on institutional structure and who has supervisory authority or needs to be in the room.

There should be a process - my current university  & former ones had it laid out in the faculty handbook or in the personnel manual. The people and process may differ depending on the reason for the termination, but there's always an investigation and then some kind of decision delivery — whether that's HR or someone from the academic infrastructure will, I assume, depend on campus structures.

Yes, there's a huge process. I'm in the pool for possibly serving on a panel to review Title IX violations. They said we can choose a penalty that includes loss of tenure, but in that case, after the panel has already found them culpable for e.g. sexual harassment, there is a whole other process with faculty committees and such.

[Ruralguy]

I've been on such a committee as well. After hearing the charges, and interviewing witnesses and such. we make a recommendation to the President.
There's been a reluctance to ever recommend dismissal, but then our cases, at least what has reached the committee so far, haven't been so egregious.
As I have stated before, some people in that position (committing a more egregious transgression)  have been asked to resign, and they typically do, though they don't have to.

[Vid]

Ruralguy; I think if a tenured faculty committed a felony (e,g, sexual harassment) the univ forces them to resign! at least from what I understand! ...and when they resign they have to deal with huge emotions (fear, sadness, shame!) bc everyone gets to know their story (I have no idea why people go to extremes...)!