how safe are you once you get your tenure position?

[Caracal]

I don't teach or research in an area that deals with race or social issues, so I'm not too worried about the review thing. But those who do need to keep their heads down from now until Ron DeSantis looses political power.

For what it is worth, the threat of this kind of thing is chilling and dangerous. In reality, I suspect the risk is pretty low for most people. It's weird, there's a perception that if you teach about race or politics, it's just a minefield and you're always dealing with angry students from both sides of the political spectrum. That has never been my experience. I hear basically the same, with small variations when I talk to friends and colleagues who teach all over the place. You don't really need to have constant trigger warnings at Wesleyan and at North Dakota state you can teach about race as a fundamental construct in American history without any issues. I think that's because academics, even those who have radical political views, usually teach with a lot of nuance. Most of us don't want to yell at students in class, we want them to think through things and engage.

I see far more controversies that come from social media, where people are engaging a wider audience and often aren't trying for engagement and nuance. Classroom controversies nearly always come about because a professor is deliberately trying to provoke students. Weirdly, course titles seem to be a source of controversy. I assume that's just because they are public in a way that a syllabus and class material is not. Again, this isn't good. I find being strident on twitter confusing and unappealing, but I shouldn't be policing this stuff, and neither should the state of Florida. There's also a greater risk for faculty who might rub some students the wrong way-and there are often gender and racial angles, as well as other sorts of biases that can come into play with that kind of stuff.

[spork]

Doing something really bad, like assaulting a student or colleague. Total dereliction of duty.

Depends on where. At Harvard it takes multiple decades before there might be any consequences.

[Mobius]

I'm not worried about tenure being gutted in terms of academic freedom. The bigger worry for tenured folks are places where enrollment is cratering.

I'm not worried at my place. Yea, enrollment is declining and probably won't recover unless, for some reason, immigrants decide our region is where they should make their lives. I don't see that happening with a lot of resentment toward immigrants based on the usual fears you hear.

No TT or tenured faculty lost their jobs during large budget cuts several years ago.

[Vkw10]

I've seen three cases of tenure revocation due to job abandonment or dereliction of duty, over a thirty year period.

The first case was gross dereliction of duty. Two years after tenure award, tenure was revoked based on evidence that person had resigned all service, skipped all faculty meetings, and cancelled or was a no show for 60% of course meetings since he was awarded tenure.

Second was tenured at an R2 for several years, took a sabbatical in home country, accepted a faculty position there, and listed both universities on his journal articles. Since he was scheduled to teach at the R2 but didn't, his tenure was revoked for job abandonment.

Third case was a person who refused to return to in person teaching, because she had moved to a low cost of living country and refused to come back. She was scheduled for onsite teaching, but converted her classes to online without telling anyone except students. Most of the students apparently okay with this at first, but she had poor internet connectivity and the students eventually began complaining that they were paying for instruction they were not getting. Two semesters of this behavior resulted in tenure revocation for dereliction of duty and persistent violation of university policies.

[larryc]

One of the main risks these days is your college closing or being merged with another.

We are not closing or merging----at least not yet----but we are retracting and retrenching. Our union has saved several tenured people from being laid-off by citing the handbook.  The admin tried for a force majeure clause in our last contract, which the union also shot down. 

Here, if a program closes (usually for low enrollment that does not cover costs) and the administrators can make the argument that a subject is no longer supported by classroom attendance, and the faculty in question is not qualified to be transferred to another department or teach something outside their immediate discipline, they are potentially toast.

This is the fear at my uni where the enrollment decline is catastrophic. We have a strong union, but a substantial faction of the admin and board wanted (but failed) to declare fiscal exigency and fire tenured professors during the pandemic. We have a new president now and she has some heavy decisions to make.

[clean]

Are there calls for pay cuts for all?  (IF budget is short 5% of faculty pay, then cut all faculty wages by 5%.... right after Admins got cut AT LEAST that amount!)

[mahagonny]

I'm not worried at my place. Yea, enrollment is declining and probably won't recover unless, for some reason, immigrants decide our region is where they should make their lives. I don't see that happening with a lot of resentment toward immigrants based on the usual fears you hear.

Now I see why open borders are so popular and so many academics seem to forgive President Biden for so much. Or just appear uninterested. I believe birth rates are not picking up. And for some reason, many fewer men enrolling. There are something like six women freshmen for every four men. Looking to the long term though, if there are fewer abortions, in time, there will be more students.

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 13, 2022, 12:19:29 PM
Doing something really bad, like assaulting a student or colleague. Total dereliction of duty.

Depends on where. At Harvard it takes multiple decades before there might be any consequences.

Conducting research that produces knowledge your school hates. Roland Fryer. Well, maybe not revoking of tenure, but suspension and permanent penalties.

[Ruralguy]

As an earlier poster said, the political correctness stuff is a minor threat, and financials due to lower enrollments are by far the greatest threat to the most people. There will be a much greater threat to adjunct faculty, and then to tenure track or perhaps non-tenured long term teaching stream faculty at places that have that, and then the tenured, especially in depts. with very low enrollments.

I believe that much of the gender gap is lower SES students, particularly minority students with lower SES. That may have changed though over the years.

[mahagonny]

As an earlier poster said, the political correctness stuff is a minor threat, and financials due to lower enrollments are by far the greatest threat to the most people. There will be a much greater threat to adjunct faculty, and then to tenure track or perhaps non-tenured long term teaching stream faculty at places that have that, and then the tenured, especially in depts. with very low enrollments.

This has always been the type of prediction one hears. But if terminating a tenured position becomes way easier as they did with Emporia State University, the game is changed. The difference is cost savings is great.

[Ruralguy]

Maybe, but we are losing schools frequently, and many cut positions, including tenure track,  on their way out. Maybe something like at most 100 tenured faculty are fired for cause in a bad year, but most of those are probably not related to political  issues and most are replaced by a TT faculty member, at least in my limited experience.

But you have a point. Perhaps strong faculty governance and unions are the best antedotes.

[mahagonny]

Maybe, but we are losing schools frequently, and many cut positions, including tenure track,  on their way out. Maybe something like at most 100 tenured faculty are fired for cause in a bad year, but most of those are probably not related to political  issues and most are replaced by a TT faculty member, at least in my limited experience.

But you have a point. Perhaps strong faculty governance and unions are the best antedotes.

You'd know better than I. Never been near a faculty senate or a union that can do anything for its workers and also wants me as member.
In my state university department tenured faculty who retire are replaced by part timers quite often, so I expect fired tenured people would be too if that happened. I'm speaking of those with something like six hours of classroom face time per week on their schedule, an hour or two of office hour time (occasionally even spent with students)  and many hours per week ostensibly reserved for research.

[ProfessorM]

As I am.learning, not at all. My university has 47% of programs under review for potential elimination. My department has a 30-40% chance of being eliminated, which will likely lead to my position being subject to a Reduction in Force. So much for tenure.

[ProfessorM]

It's really hard to shut down a unit. An admin can't just snap their fingers and shut down an academic unit.

You haven't met the administration at my university. The timeline from "department under review" to "notice of discontinuation" is approximately 1 month. Now there is a self-study to be completed by each department with all of them to be reviewed in 10 days. Note that 47% of programs are under review. There will be a short appeal process then layoff notices for tenured and non-tenured faculty will go out one month after the notices of discontinuation.

[Wahoo Redux]

It's really hard to shut down a unit. An admin can't just snap their fingers and shut down an academic unit.

You haven't met the administration at my university. The timeline from "department under review" to "notice of discontinuation" is approximately 1 month. Now there is a self-study to be completed by each department with all of them to be reviewed in 10 days. Note that 47% of programs are under review. There will be a short appeal process then layoff notices for tenured and non-tenured faculty will go out one month after the notices of discontinuation.

My old uni (where I was laid-off but my wife still teaches) blinks its eyes like I Dream of Jeannie and not only do individual classes disappear but whole departments and majors.

Prior comments did not reflect the new encroaching reality, I don't think.

[Caracal]

It's really hard to shut down a unit. An admin can't just snap their fingers and shut down an academic unit.

You haven't met the administration at my university. The timeline from "department under review" to "notice of discontinuation" is approximately 1 month. Now there is a self-study to be completed by each department with all of them to be reviewed in 10 days. Note that 47% of programs are under review. There will be a short appeal process then layoff notices for tenured and non-tenured faculty will go out one month after the notices of discontinuation.

My old uni (where I was laid-off but my wife still teaches) blinks its eyes like I Dream of Jeannie and not only do individual classes disappear but whole departments and majors.

Prior comments did not reflect the new encroaching reality, I don't think.

Well, like so many things, it really depends where you are. Even if an elite private university eliminates a department or a program, they almost never actually get rid of tenure track faculty. People instead are moved to some other department. This is also likely to be the case at places a rung below that are financially stable. At public universities politics has potentially made the situation more complicated, although I would still say in general the higher up the ladder the institution is the safer you are, but things really depend on the particular circumstances.