Attempting to Hire a Student - Wow...

[financeguy]

Expecting a rant on how bad they are? Not this time actually. I'm floored by how difficult it is to get through the process at career services/career education centers at six (!) different local universities I've attempted to hire from. They're not attempting to make the process easy for the employer at all, which I'm sure leads many to do exactly what I've done and get someone from another channel entirely. I thought this would be an interesting part-time opportunity ideal for someone who is a bit "more" than an intern and hoping to get experience prior to seeking full time work. I'm a little more receptive to student complaints that their alma mater didn't do anything to help them on the job market now that I see how difficult it is to just post something on their job board.

[mamselle]

Puzzling.

Are they perhaps worried you'll poach the student completely?

M.

[Hibush]

Do you think it is done out of a sense of protecting their students and screening employers, or is it more a matter of excessive or poorly designed bureaucracy?

[research_prof]

When I joined my current R2 university and coming from the Mecca of technology in the US, I talked to the associate Dean about organizing a career fair where the best tech companies in the US would come and recruit students. It was easy for me to do that because of my connections.

The associate Dean's response was that he did not want me to do that because: (i) companies need to make donations to the college to recruit students from the college; and (ii) it would look bad on him since his friends at some crappy local companies would be upset. If I were the associate Dean, I would actually pay the expenses for such companies to come and I would beg them to recruit my students.

We are talking about an R2 university with really bad students, who (nevertheless) would have the opportunity to interview with the best tech companies in the country. Still, this R2 university wanted the companies to make donations to get access to their "amazing" students.

In other words, people at small places are happy to own 100% of a grape rather than 10% of a watermelon. And that's why some places stay small and never really grow. I can definitely relate to what the OP mentioned.

[Hibush]

When I joined my current R2 university and coming from the Mecca of technology in the US, I talked to the associate Dean about organizing a career fair where the best tech companies in the US would come and recruit students. It was easy for me to do that because of my connections.

The associate Dean's response was that he did not want me to do that because: (i) companies need to make donations to the college to recruit students from the college; and (ii) it would look bad on him since his friends at some crappy local companies would be upset. If I were the associate Dean, I would actually pay the expenses for such companies to come and I would beg them to recruit my students.

We are talking about an R2 university with really bad students, who (nevertheless) would have the opportunity to interview with the best tech companies in the country. Still, this R2 university wanted the companies to make donations to get access to their "amazing" students.

In other words, people at small places are happy to own 100% of a grape rather than 10% of a watermelon. And that's why some places stay small and never really grow. I can definitely relate to what the OP mentioned.

Supplying crappy local students to crappy local companies for a kickback is the way declining American communities are hanging on, for now. That grape isn't even a good grape.

[mamselle]

Penny-wise and pound foolish, exactly.

Programs I'm aware of that actually do what you're suggesting--and have done so for decades--grew because their paid internships attracted more students, letting them raise fees and increase donor interest among successful alumni, among other things.

M.

[financeguy]

mamselle, I doubt it's about poaching since I didn't even introduce myself as having a faculty affiliation. I actually don't want someone from my home institution just to avoid any conflict. Hibush, regarding red tape or protectiveness, I have to imagine it's a combination of the former coupled with a desire to justify their existence. My experience thus far is this:

-Private U 1: Unable to talk to human. Left message. No response for three days.
-Private U 2: Unable to talk to human. Left message. No response for three days.
-State U 1: Shuffled around to multiple people, finally arriving at someone who notified me of a quite lengthy process involving receiving approval and creating an account just to post on a job board. Minimum time for hypothetical posting to "go live?" Three-four weeks depending on when the approval giver "gets to it" which can begin the account setup process.
-Private U 3: VM box does not even accept messages. Tells prospective employers where to go on the web. This information is incorrect and unhelpful.
-Additional two schools were similar to State school 1 with varying degrees of red tape followed by likely delay.

Solution? $45 to post on CL. Indicated the role would be ideal for a student interested in the area (major not required) but open to all.

[research_prof]

mamselle, I doubt it's about poaching since I didn't even introduce myself as having a faculty affiliation. I actually don't want someone from my home institution just to avoid any conflict. Hibush, regarding red tape or protectiveness, I have to imagine it's a combination of the former coupled with a desire to justify their existence. My experience thus far is this:

-Private U 1: Unable to talk to human. Left message. No response for three days.
-Private U 2: Unable to talk to human. Left message. No response for three days.
-State U 1: Shuffled around to multiple people, finally arriving at someone who notified me of a quite lengthy process involving receiving approval and creating an account just to post on a job board. Minimum time for hypothetical posting to "go live?" Three-four weeks depending on when the approval giver "gets to it" which can begin the account setup process.
-Private U 3: VM box does not even accept messages. Tells prospective employers where to go on the web. This information is incorrect and unhelpful.
-Additional two schools were similar to State school 1 with varying degrees of red tape followed by likely delay.

Solution? $45 to post on CL. Indicated the role would be ideal for a student interested in the area (major not required) but open to all.

Try telling them you want to donate money to the university. I am pretty sure they will speed things up.

[artalot]

I do think that career services prioritizes places where they already have a relationship, either personal or already in the system. I think something like 70% of jobs are still obtained through relationships. Also, they probably do get a lot of spam calls/mail with shady sales jobs, etc. Not an excuse for what happened here, more an explanation.

[glowdart]

I work here and can't figure out our system without the internal guide and a lot of notes taken before the good CS person quit. Most times I just give up and email the majors directly and put an ad on our social media account. I have no idea how external users do it.

If you can manage to avoid sounding like every other crank who emails with An Amazing Opportunity for YOUR students!!!! then I'd say to email department chairs or relevant faculty directly, but be forewarned that there are a ton of cranks out there.