Comeback when stranger calls you "dear"?

[nebo113]

I absolutely agree about context.  What you and I experienced with physicians was contextual, though we experienced it differently, due to context.

[kaysixteen]

Americans, especially middle class ones not in particulary traditionally conservative areas of the country, often like to think or pretend that we do not have social rank in this country.   They are wrong-- it is a fact of life, and correct.   I am not the same as the 20 yo secretary who calls me to cancel an appointment, and she must not address me in a condescending and impertinent fashion, as though I were her BFF.   Period.

[Kron3007]

Americans, especially middle class ones not in particulary traditionally conservative areas of the country, often like to think or pretend that we do not have social rank in this country.   They are wrong-- it is a fact of life, and correct.   I am not the same as the 20 yo secretary who calls me to cancel an appointment, and she must not address me in a condescending and impertinent fashion, as though I were her BFF.   Period.

Yes, how dare the serfs fail to recognize you stature.   You should probably raise their taxes to teach them a lesson.

[marshwiggle]

Americans, especially middle class ones not in particularly traditionally conservative areas of the country, often like to think or pretend that we do not have social rank in this country.   They are wrong-- it is a fact of life, and correct.   I am not the same as the 20 yo secretary who calls me to cancel an appointment, and she must not address me in a condescending and impertinent fashion, as though I were her BFF.   Period.

The issue may be easier to think of in terms of social roles, rather than social "status". Young people, most especially GenZ's, have been raised in an atmosphere where roles are inherently evil. (For example, when even "gender" is not well-defined, or even constant, then virtually every social interaction potentially needs to be negotiated from scratch. And with things like "fluidity", even previously negotiated factors are by no means settled.)

I have good relationships with all of my adult children. However, I have always been, and will always be, their parent. While the specific details of that relationship change over time, it means that they can make requests of me that they could not make of others (such as for accommodation, childcare, etc.), and I can make similar requests of them (water my plants when I'm away. check my mail, etc.). I have never claimed to prioritize being their "friend".

Similarly, my son, who is a minister, explained the importance of clerical vestments. The minister is not "better" than the congregants, but when s/he puts on the vestments s/he is taking on the role of spiritual teacher.

With my students, my role as an instructor reflects the institution's recognition of me as having sufficient expertise in the material and in the methods of teaching that students can assume I know what I'm doing. It doesn't guarantee that I will get everything correct, but it does mean that if there is something that does not make sense to them they should ask questions politely.

In the case of Kay and the receptionist, his role as the client is not the same as the role of one of her peers, and it is not "social superiority" that is responsible, it is social roles, in this case those of client and employee of the business serving said client.

[Kron3007]

Americans, especially middle class ones not in particularly traditionally conservative areas of the country, often like to think or pretend that we do not have social rank in this country.   They are wrong-- it is a fact of life, and correct.   I am not the same as the 20 yo secretary who calls me to cancel an appointment, and she must not address me in a condescending and impertinent fashion, as though I were her BFF.   Period.

The issue may be easier to think of in terms of social roles, rather than social "status". Young people, most especially GenZ's, have been raised in an atmosphere where roles are inherently evil. (For example, when even "gender" is not well-defined, or even constant, then virtually every social interaction potentially needs to be negotiated from scratch. And with things like "fluidity", even previously negotiated factors are by no means settled.)

I have good relationships with all of my adult children. However, I have always been, and will always be, their parent. While the specific details of that relationship change over time, it means that they can make requests of me that they could not make of others (such as for accommodation, childcare, etc.), and I can make similar requests of them (water my plants when I'm away. check my mail, etc.). I have never claimed to prioritize being their "friend".

Similarly, my son, who is a minister, explained the importance of clerical vestments. The minister is not "better" than the congregants, but when s/he puts on the vestments s/he is taking on the role of spiritual teacher.

With my students, my role as an instructor reflects the institution's recognition of me as having sufficient expertise in the material and in the methods of teaching that students can assume I know what I'm doing. It doesn't guarantee that I will get everything correct, but it does mean that if there is something that does not make sense to them they should ask questions politely.

In the case of Kay and the receptionist, his role as the client is not the same as the role of one of her peers, and it is not "social superiority" that is responsible, it is social roles, in this case those of client and employee of the business serving said client.

Obviously there are social roles and etiquette, but norms change over time and by region and your preferences do not determine what those are or make other standards wrong.  Expecting the next generation to use the titles you may have grown up with is ridiculous. 

Ironically, when I moved South, they were both more formal and more familiar at the same time.  I would either get called sir or dear/honey/etc , not much middle ground.  Instead of being offended, I adopted the local standards as best I could. 

I have also been placed where they called me dude, or man.  No offense was meant, just a familiar term that was typical for the time/place.  Taking offense to this type of thing will only make you bitter.

That being said, there is context and I recognize that it can be condescending, so for the OP I understand with the issue. However, most medical clinics I have been to recently have used first names.  This is just the new normal.

[marshwiggle]

Obviously there are social roles and etiquette, but norms change over time and by region and your preferences do not determine what those are or make other standards wrong.  Expecting the next generation to use the titles you may have grown up with is ridiculous. 

Ironically, when I moved South, they were both more formal and more familiar at the same time.  I would either get called sir or dear/honey/etc , not much middle ground.  Instead of being offended, I adopted the local standards as best I could. 

I have also been placed where they called me dude, or man.  No offense was meant, just a familiar term that was typical for the time/place.  Taking offense to this type of thing will only make you bitter.

That being said, there is context and I recognize that it can be condescending, so for the OP I understand with the issue. However, most medical clinics I have been to recently have used first names.  This is just the new normal.

I agree that taking offense is not helpful. But it doesn't require you to respond in kind. (I'm not going to call a student "dude" because they addressed me that way. I'm not starting an email with "Hey!" and so on.)

[Kron3007]

Obviously there are social roles and etiquette, but norms change over time and by region and your preferences do not determine what those are or make other standards wrong.  Expecting the next generation to use the titles you may have grown up with is ridiculous. 

Ironically, when I moved South, they were both more formal and more familiar at the same time.  I would either get called sir or dear/honey/etc , not much middle ground.  Instead of being offended, I adopted the local standards as best I could. 

I have also been placed where they called me dude, or man.  No offense was meant, just a familiar term that was typical for the time/place.  Taking offense to this type of thing will only make you bitter.

That being said, there is context and I recognize that it can be condescending, so for the OP I understand with the issue. However, most medical clinics I have been to recently have used first names.  This is just the new normal.

I agree that taking offense is not helpful. But it doesn't require you to respond in kind. (I'm not going to call a student "dude" because they addressed me that way. I'm not starting an email with "Hey!" and so on.)

I have yet to have a student call me dude, but that would be pretty awesome and I may indeed respond in kind.     

[downer]

I've been in several situations where strangers call me "dear" or some equivalent: restaurant waitstaff, phone order-takers, people at airline ticket counters, supermarket cashiers, etc. I find this extremely irritating but am never sure how to address it in a way that will not anger these people and thereby result in subpar service. I sometimes call them "dear" in return, but that feels awkward to me. Would appreciate some suggestions on replies that are polite but get my point across.

https://www.wikihow.com/Deal-with-Condescending-People
https://healthassistcorp.com/what-to-say-when-they-call-you-dear/

[dismalist]

Here is the classic comeback:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6n8VyqaCQ4, start at 0:50 or earlier.

[secundem_artem]

The Aussies have it right.  Everybody, regardless of social status, race, or anything else is your mate.  It's not just an informal term of address.  The concept of "mateship" is quite real. 

[Caracal]

Obviously there are social roles and etiquette, but norms change over time and by region and your preferences do not determine what those are or make other standards wrong.  Expecting the next generation to use the titles you may have grown up with is ridiculous. 

Ironically, when I moved South, they were both more formal and more familiar at the same time.  I would either get called sir or dear/honey/etc , not much middle ground.  Instead of being offended, I adopted the local standards as best I could. 

I have also been placed where they called me dude, or man.  No offense was meant, just a familiar term that was typical for the time/place.  Taking offense to this type of thing will only make you bitter.

That being said, there is context and I recognize that it can be condescending, so for the OP I understand with the issue. However, most medical clinics I have been to recently have used first names.  This is just the new normal.

I agree that taking offense is not helpful. But it doesn't require you to respond in kind. (I'm not going to call a student "dude" because they addressed me that way. I'm not starting an email with "Hey!" and so on.)

No, of course not, but it illustrates that there are actually fairly complex rules about context and positionally. Often, the rudest thing to do is to fail to use any kind of salutation at all. If a waiter comes to a table and says "what are you having," that could easily come across as quite rude. If you have the right tone of voice and mannerisms, you could pull it off, but it's tricky and you might mess it up if you get rushed. Similarly, if I'm in the grocery store and I see someone drop their keys, I don't yell after them "Hey! Hey! Keys!" That's basically the only time I ever call anyone sir or ma'am and it's if you're going to raise your voice to get the attention of a stranger, you really need the term of address to make it clear that you're not being confrontational. The formality isn't really the point, if it was in my repetoir, "man," mate," "brother," or "buddy" would all do the same thing.

If you think about it, familiar terms of address like dear are fine in a service context because there is no risk of blurred lines. The waiter at the restaurant is not actually attempting to communicate that they are on affectionate terms with you-that's the basic misunderstand that Vark has. Dear is a way of communicating that they are friendly, relaxed and will take care of you. The reason it isn't ok to call a student "dear" is because it carries with it connotations that are inappropriate within a student/teacher relationship. Ditto for other professional relationships. I can be warm, I can be friendly, but I shouldn't be using language that suggests I'm going to take care of students in ways that a close friend or family member would-or that I view them as adorable small people. 

[kaysixteen]

I confess I have been doing alot of thinking about this issue, some of which I had been doing before this thread started (this incident for instance, with the dental receptionist occurred six months ago, and I have actually discussed it with my psychotherapist, and with several friends), and all the more so because my view of my faith is one of an almost Anabaptist-like view of the need for humility and acceptance of life, ('demut', and 'gelassenheit').   That said, the Bible certainly does not advocate absolute egalitarianism (I could cite some passages if anyone wishes), and there are cultural and societal norms at play, which, like it or not, are different for 50-something New Englanders than 20-somethings from, ahem, (remember this receptionist spoke with a distinctive accent demonstrating her membership in a large, increasing, immigrant demographic in my city).   Marshy did an excellent job, further, in clarifying and explaining the issues involved here, and those posters who seem to suggest that it is my responsibility to adjust to changing cultural norms, esp those held by Gen Zers of all ethnicities, ignore the fact that, well, *this is my home state, I am not the immigrant here, and I am a 50-something paying customer*.  It is not my responsibility to conform to the changing mores of young people, esp newcomer ones.  As I mentioned when I described how I told my hs students never to address female profs as 'Miss'/ etc, it is irrelevant whether Gen Zer wants to call her such, thinks he should be allowed to do so, etc.-- she is the authority figure and deserves respect, and if she does not wish to be so addressed, Gen Zer must not address her as such, period.   And she gets to rebuke him if he does.  (For years, stretching back to the old fora, many female professors here have made their antipathy to being so addressed crystal clear!)  Now I do not exactly know, further, why it is that  I greatly dislike being addressed as 'dear', 'honey', 'buddy', etc., (though I have my suspicions) but that I do dislike this, is crystal clear as well-- truth is, it infuriates me.  Just today I was having a decent lunch in a casual dining cafe I have visited on occasion (it is not really very close to me), when the waiter, otherwise excellent, called me 'buddy'-- he was probably maybe 20-25 years younger than I-- I said nothing, but, well... He should not have called me 'buddy'.   I am paying to be called 'sir', because, well, since I was a wee sprite, I have been raised in a cultural milieu which has taught me that juniors, especially in professional service situations, do not address elders, esp paying customers, with cheeky frathouse familiarity.   Indeed, even from a purely pragmatic sense, it is better for those servers to address those older customers with due traditional respect, as it lessens the likelihood of getting those people mad at them, and can even counter a multitude of sins, as it were).  I get that the world changes, and many of those changes are for the better.   Many, but not all, and I do not have to like those bad changes, nor blindly tolerate or accept them.

[Puget]

Kay, I'm going to say this gently, an genuinely, and only once--
It must be exhausting and counterproductive to spend your life aggrieved and tilting at windmills like you seem to be. What might happen if you tried, just for a little experiment, to put down the burden of needing to assert your rightness and the world's wrongness in the face of inevitable cultural change? To observe the thoughts and feelings these things bring up for you and then let them go, rather than ruminating about them? Perhaps something to discuss with your therapist.

[mahagonny]

Kay, I'm going to say this gently, an genuinely, and only once--
It must be exhausting and counterproductive to spend your life aggrieved and tilting at windmills like you seem to be. What might happen if you tried, just for a little experiment, to put down the burden of needing to assert your rightness and the world's wrongness in the face of inevitable cultural change? To observe the thoughts and feelings these things bring up for you and then let them go, rather than ruminating about them? Perhaps something to discuss with your therapist.

Random thoughts/questions
I don't see society changing well or through shared understanding. I see society and fragmented, overly interested in placating youth, and not well grounded. Maybe that's why I enjoy reading K16 as he has well reasoned points to make and sounds well grounded if a little uptight.
Example: some of my students go ahead and call me by first name. Some call me 'Professor M.' The culture is in flux.
As long as we're all discussing mental health lately (ours and our neighbor's) has anyone done a study on the long-term psychological effects of adjunct teaching employment? I'd be absolutely amazed if it helps one's self-esteem.

[Kron3007]

I confess I have been doing alot of thinking about this issue, some of which I had been doing before this thread started (this incident for instance, with the dental receptionist occurred six months ago, and I have actually discussed it with my psychotherapist, and with several friends), and all the more so because my view of my faith is one of an almost Anabaptist-like view of the need for humility and acceptance of life, ('demut', and 'gelassenheit').   That said, the Bible certainly does not advocate absolute egalitarianism (I could cite some passages if anyone wishes), and there are cultural and societal norms at play, which, like it or not, are different for 50-something New Englanders than 20-somethings from, ahem, (remember this receptionist spoke with a distinctive accent demonstrating her membership in a large, increasing, immigrant demographic in my city).   Marshy did an excellent job, further, in clarifying and explaining the issues involved here, and those posters who seem to suggest that it is my responsibility to adjust to changing cultural norms, esp those held by Gen Zers of all ethnicities, ignore the fact that, well, *this is my home state, I am not the immigrant here, and I am a 50-something paying customer*.  It is not my responsibility to conform to the changing mores of young people, esp newcomer ones.  As I mentioned when I described how I told my hs students never to address female profs as 'Miss'/ etc, it is irrelevant whether Gen Zer wants to call her such, thinks he should be allowed to do so, etc.-- she is the authority figure and deserves respect, and if she does not wish to be so addressed, Gen Zer must not address her as such, period.   And she gets to rebuke him if he does.  (For years, stretching back to the old fora, many female professors here have made their antipathy to being so addressed crystal clear!)  Now I do not exactly know, further, why it is that  I greatly dislike being addressed as 'dear', 'honey', 'buddy', etc., (though I have my suspicions) but that I do dislike this, is crystal clear as well-- truth is, it infuriates me.  Just today I was having a decent lunch in a casual dining cafe I have visited on occasion (it is not really very close to me), when the waiter, otherwise excellent, called me 'buddy'-- he was probably maybe 20-25 years younger than I-- I said nothing, but, well... He should not have called me 'buddy'.   I am paying to be called 'sir', because, well, since I was a wee sprite, I have been raised in a cultural milieu which has taught me that juniors, especially in professional service situations, do not address elders, esp paying customers, with cheeky frathouse familiarity.   Indeed, even from a purely pragmatic sense, it is better for those servers to address those older customers with due traditional respect, as it lessens the likelihood of getting those people mad at them, and can even counter a multitude of sins, as it were).  I get that the world changes, and many of those changes are for the better.   Many, but not all, and I do not have to like those bad changes, nor blindly tolerate or accept them.

You do not have to like change, but that will not stop it from happening.  Allowing it to upset you has no positive impact for you or anyone else, and must make for a frustrating existence. 

Your religion is your business, and no one else has to follow or align with it.  It is the beauty of freedom of religion and speech, which go both ways.  I am not religious, and don't like religion in general, but I would never take offense if you said "bless you" or "have a blessed day" to me.  I feel the intent of the words that are spoken are much more important than the words themself.   

I was at a pizza place yesterday and when I left, the 18ish year old employee said "have a good one man".  He was telling me to have a good day.  Taking offense to someone wishing you a good day just because they didn't use a formal title is crazy.