Comeback when stranger calls you "dear"?

[Langue_doc]

I confess I have been doing alot of thinking about this issue, some of which I had been doing before this thread started (this incident for instance, with the dental receptionist occurred six months ago, and I have actually discussed it with my psychotherapist, and with several friends), and all the more so because my view of my faith is one of an almost Anabaptist-like view of the need for humility and acceptance of life, ('demut', and 'gelassenheit').   That said, the Bible certainly does not advocate absolute egalitarianism (I could cite some passages if anyone wishes), and there are cultural and societal norms at play, which, like it or not, are different for 50-something New Englanders than 20-somethings from, ahem, (remember this receptionist spoke with a distinctive accent demonstrating her membership in a large, increasing, immigrant demographic in my city).   Marshy did an excellent job, further, in clarifying and explaining the issues involved here, and those posters who seem to suggest that it is my responsibility to adjust to changing cultural norms, esp those held by Gen Zers of all ethnicities, ignore the fact that, well, *this is my home state, I am not the immigrant here, and I am a 50-something paying customer*.  It is not my responsibility to conform to the changing mores of young people, esp newcomer ones.  As I mentioned when I described how I told my hs students never to address female profs as 'Miss'/ etc, it is irrelevant whether Gen Zer wants to call her such, thinks he should be allowed to do so, etc.-- she is the authority figure and deserves respect, and if she does not wish to be so addressed, Gen Zer must not address her as such, period.   And she gets to rebuke him if he does.  (For years, stretching back to the old fora, many female professors here have made their antipathy to being so addressed crystal clear!)  Now I do not exactly know, further, why it is that  I greatly dislike being addressed as 'dear', 'honey', 'buddy', etc., (though I have my suspicions) but that I do dislike this, is crystal clear as well-- truth is, it infuriates me.  Just today I was having a decent lunch in a casual dining cafe I have visited on occasion (it is not really very close to me), when the waiter, otherwise excellent, called me 'buddy'-- he was probably maybe 20-25 years younger than I-- I said nothing, but, well... He should not have called me 'buddy'.   I am paying to be called 'sir', because, well, since I was a wee sprite, I have been raised in a cultural milieu which has taught me that juniors, especially in professional service situations, do not address elders, esp paying customers, with cheeky frathouse familiarity.   Indeed, even from a purely pragmatic sense, it is better for those servers to address those older customers with due traditional respect, as it lessens the likelihood of getting those people mad at them, and can even counter a multitude of sins, as it were).  I get that the world changes, and many of those changes are for the better.   Many, but not all, and I do not have to like those bad changes, nor blindly tolerate or accept them.

You do not have to like change, but that will not stop it from happening.  Allowing it to upset you has no positive impact for you or anyone else, and must make for a frustrating existence. 

Your religion is your business, and no one else has to follow or align with it.  It is the beauty of freedom of religion and speech, which go both ways.  I am not religious, and don't like religion in general, but I would never take offense if you said "bless you" or "have a blessed day" to me.  I feel the intent of the words that are spoken are much more important than the words themself.   

I was at a pizza place yesterday and when I left, the 18ish year old employee said "have a good one man".  He was telling me to have a good day.  Taking offense to someone wishing you a good day just because they didn't use a formal title is crazy.

I don't take offense at terms of address when it is clear that the person is trying to be friendly/helpful.

I do take the initiative when calling customer support because I don't like being addressed by my first name by whippersnappers who sometimes talk to you as though you are a child/idiot/don't know what you are talking about. I give them my last name first, spelling it out before pronouncing it and then my first name. Very often the representative takes the hint and addresses me as Ms. Lastname. If they insist on addressing me by my first name, I politely ask them to use my last name. This gives me an edge when I'm calling them with a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed. If, after the first "Ms. Lastname", they address me as dear, I just let it ride.

[AvidReader]

I have yet to have a student call me dude, but that would be pretty awesome and I may indeed respond in kind.   

Must be regional. I've been called "dude" several times by several different students, usually prefixed by "c'mon" and occurring just after I have explained that I will be adhering to one of the expectations in the syllabus. A student at my last secondary school referred to all teachers as "dude," regardless of gender.

AR.

[Kron3007]

I have yet to have a student call me dude, but that would be pretty awesome and I may indeed respond in kind.   

Must be regional. I've been called "dude" several times by several different students, usually prefixed by "c'mon" and occurring just after I have explained that I will be adhering to one of the expectations in the syllabus. A student at my last secondary school referred to all teachers as "dude," regardless of gender.

AR.

I just finished a lab, and they mostly call me professor or Dr. lastname.      Oddly enough, this weirds me out more than if they were to use my first name. 

Still waiting to see how them calling me dude will make me feel, but I think it would be pretty rad. 

[downer]

I have yet to have a student call me dude, but that would be pretty awesome and I may indeed respond in kind.   

Must be regional. I've been called "dude" several times by several different students, usually prefixed by "c'mon" and occurring just after I have explained that I will be adhering to one of the expectations in the syllabus. A student at my last secondary school referred to all teachers as "dude," regardless of gender.

AR.

Where is the land of the dude?

Is "dude" potentially a hostile word to use? For me, it can be. "What's up, dude?" is friendly. "Really, dude?" has some aggression to it.

[mahagonny]

If I read the room properly 'Dude' used to mean one who dresses foppishly. 'All duded up' was not a compliment. So when I hear it used I still think it refers to someone who doesn't quite get it. But maybe through wide use that has softened some.

[downer]

The dude abides.

[AvidReader]

Where is the land of the dude?

Is "dude" potentially a hostile word to use? For me, it can be. "What's up, dude?" is friendly. "Really, dude?" has some aggression to it.

My "land of the dude" has been Bible Belt USA. The tone is always (to me) "really, dude?" --it only comes after the imposition of rules.

My mother strongly objects to being called both "dude" and "guys" (as in, "hi, guys!" meant in quite a friendly manner. Watching her say, "But I'm not," to the cluelessness of the welcomer, is both hilarious and mildly embarrassing.

AR.

[ergative]

Where is the land of the dude?

Is "dude" potentially a hostile word to use? For me, it can be. "What's up, dude?" is friendly. "Really, dude?" has some aggression to it.

My "land of the dude" has been Bible Belt USA. The tone is always (to me) "really, dude?" --it only comes after the imposition of rules.

My mother strongly objects to being called both "dude" and "guys" (as in, "hi, guys!" meant in quite a friendly manner. Watching her say, "But I'm not," to the cluelessness of the welcomer, is both hilarious and mildly embarrassing.

AR.

I spent the second half of my upbringing in the bible belt, and definitely picked up, 'dude,' but not as a term of address. It was more a discourse marker. 'Dude!' I'd say, as a way of announcing that I was about to speak. I wasn't actually calling anyone a dude; I was just staking my claim on the conversational floor to ensure that people were prepared to listen to me.

My mother, of very old East Coast stock, did not understand its purpose, and brought me up short one Thanksgiving when I started to respond to an older cousin in this way. 'Ergative,' she said in performative rebuke, 'Are you actually calling your cousin Bartholomew, who is a judge, a "dude"?'

Dude, whatever, I thought, and went on to make my point about Star Trek.

I've stopped using it now, but I remember it fondly as a very useful rhetorical device.

[marshwiggle]

One question that occurred to me in this discussion is this:
What is the difference between someone expecting or demanding a certain title or form of address and someone expecting or demanding a certain pronoun? If there are not "safe" forms of one for general use, then why are there "safe" forms for the other? If there are conventions for one that are socially accepted, why shouldn't there be conventions for both?

(Remember Bill Clinton: "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is." Finer linguistic hair-splitting does not exist.)

[mahagonny]

One question that occurred to me in this discussion is this:
What is the difference between someone expecting or demanding a certain title or form of address and someone expecting or demanding a certain pronoun? If there are not "safe" forms of one for general use, then why are there "safe" forms for the other? If there are conventions for one that are socially accepted, why shouldn't there be conventions for both?

(Remember Bill Clinton: "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is." Finer linguistic hair-splitting does not exist.)

I'll thank you for refraining to call me 'dude' whereas I am gender non-binary and my pronouns 'they/them/their' have already been noted on my email and office door. You're allowed two mistakes. After that, I'm going to bust you for microaggression, for the good of the community.

[apl68]

I confess I have been doing alot of thinking about this issue, some of which I had been doing before this thread started (this incident for instance, with the dental receptionist occurred six months ago, and I have actually discussed it with my psychotherapist, and with several friends), and all the more so because my view of my faith is one of an almost Anabaptist-like view of the need for humility and acceptance of life, ('demut', and 'gelassenheit').   That said, the Bible certainly does not advocate absolute egalitarianism (I could cite some passages if anyone wishes), and there are cultural and societal norms at play, which, like it or not, are different for 50-something New Englanders than 20-somethings from, ahem, (remember this receptionist spoke with a distinctive accent demonstrating her membership in a large, increasing, immigrant demographic in my city).   Marshy did an excellent job, further, in clarifying and explaining the issues involved here, and those posters who seem to suggest that it is my responsibility to adjust to changing cultural norms, esp those held by Gen Zers of all ethnicities, ignore the fact that, well, *this is my home state, I am not the immigrant here, and I am a 50-something paying customer*.  It is not my responsibility to conform to the changing mores of young people, esp newcomer ones.  As I mentioned when I described how I told my hs students never to address female profs as 'Miss'/ etc, it is irrelevant whether Gen Zer wants to call her such, thinks he should be allowed to do so, etc.-- she is the authority figure and deserves respect, and if she does not wish to be so addressed, Gen Zer must not address her as such, period.   And she gets to rebuke him if he does.  (For years, stretching back to the old fora, many female professors here have made their antipathy to being so addressed crystal clear!)  Now I do not exactly know, further, why it is that  I greatly dislike being addressed as 'dear', 'honey', 'buddy', etc., (though I have my suspicions) but that I do dislike this, is crystal clear as well-- truth is, it infuriates me.  Just today I was having a decent lunch in a casual dining cafe I have visited on occasion (it is not really very close to me), when the waiter, otherwise excellent, called me 'buddy'-- he was probably maybe 20-25 years younger than I-- I said nothing, but, well... He should not have called me 'buddy'.   I am paying to be called 'sir', because, well, since I was a wee sprite, I have been raised in a cultural milieu which has taught me that juniors, especially in professional service situations, do not address elders, esp paying customers, with cheeky frathouse familiarity.   Indeed, even from a purely pragmatic sense, it is better for those servers to address those older customers with due traditional respect, as it lessens the likelihood of getting those people mad at them, and can even counter a multitude of sins, as it were).  I get that the world changes, and many of those changes are for the better.   Many, but not all, and I do not have to like those bad changes, nor blindly tolerate or accept them.

Kay, there's a disconnect here.  You preface this post speaking of a Christian need for humility and acceptance.  Which is absolutely true. 

The rest of it is all about how you, as a person over 50, native-born citizen, paying customer, etc., are entitled to respect and deference from others.  And how you are unable and unwilling to reconcile yourself to receiving less than your just due in terms of respect and deference.  It's not just this post.  This has been a pretty consistent major theme throughout your career at the Fora.  You give the impression of being somebody who has spent many years deeply disappointed at a life and a world that have failed to provide you with the things that you, by virtue of birth, right conduct, hard work, and education have earned and are entitled to.

You know what?  I get it.  I've very often felt the same way.  The particular pet peeve of not being addressed correctly by "social inferiors" is not a problem for me.  Different upbringing and culture, I guess.  But I have spent a great deal of my life feeling that I have received a raw deal.  I was raised by a decent family, and have lived a life of correct behavior, and worked hard for many years to get an education.  All of which I was given to understand entitled one to expect things like a good marriage, children, and career success.  I've in fact received none of these things, except, to a limited extent and way overdue, a little bit of the last.  And so I've spent much of my life unhappy and resentful because I didn't receive my due.

I've come to recognize that this mindset is pretty foolish in light of my Christian faith.  Jesus, the Christ, is God.  Who descended to Earth as a tiny human being, and let himself be put to death by tiny human beings--all for the sake of redeeming the sins of tiny human beings.  Who in no way deserved it.  Now that is somebody receiving less than his due!  Yet he did it, out of love.  He offers us forgiveness and a chance to be with God.  How do we receive that?  By following Jesus and imitating his example of humility.  See Philippians 2:5-11.

Remembering all this has been very good for me.  It's incredibly freeing to give up the stubborn belief that I "deserve" better than I've had in life, and the wounded pride, and just accept having to live a sub-optimal life for a few decades as a fair tradeoff for someday being with God.  And meanwhile learning to enjoy loving other people, instead of raging to myself that I can't make them bend to my will.  Call me crazy, but if more people had this sort of attitude I think all the hurt feelings and anger and cultural misunderstandings that everybody has been complaining about on this thread would stop seeming like an important issue.

Please get help letting this go, Kay.  Not from some therapist, but from Jesus.  He's ready to offer it.

[fishbrains]

Please get help letting this go, Kay.  Not from some therapist, but from Jesus.  He's ready to offer it.

Yes. Dude, just let it go.

[mamselle]

+1

M.

[kaysixteen]

Ok, random additional thoughts and responses:

1) those like apl who are reminding me that I should give this up, especially as a Christian, are not necessarily wrong, given the realities of life.   That said, the traditonal attitudes I have go straight back to the Puritans, and, really, almost all Christian sects prior to maybe the last 50 years or so.   I can make a biblical case, pretty solidly, for the need for due deference to social superiors, elders, etc., esp in service/ professional circumstances.   Irrespective of my current or recent professional and personal realities, well, I really can make that case.   And most of you really have no notion of what it is like to work a retail job in a place like Rusty City, dealing every day with rough, slimy characters who behave poorly, treat the help like sewer scum, etc.   Methinks most of you could not deal with such employment for a week, without a major epiphany resulting, at least.

2) Just the same day I was 'buddied' by the young waiter, I went to my eye doc.   Now her practice's patient demographic skews older, due largely to the nature of the work she does, but most of the techs there, the people who put eyedrops in eyes, check your eyechart performance, etc., well... they regularly speak to patients as though they were children.   Think of the article cited here by the woman who noted how, well, unacceptable this is... even if the young healthcare provider does not like this.   Mr. Smith is 50 years older than you, young lady--- you will not address him as 'dear', 'honey', or even 'John'.   Period.

3) Now recall that I mentioned I had told students never to address female professors as 'Miss', etc.  I did this largely motivated by the regular extremely negative reaction evinced over the years on the fora, from, well, female professors who have made it clear they view such behavior as *extremely unacceptable*.  IOW, well, irrespective of the reality that I have overreacted to such behavior myself, issues which I am working on, as I said, well, ahem.... we would not be having this conversation were I a woman.

[fishbrains]

Bruh, no one's saying you're all that wrong. We're saying life is too short to worry about this silly $hit with people you see once or twice a year (or maybe even in a lifetime).

Students using "Miss" with a professor they see on a regular basis and may want to develop a professional relationship with for their own advantage is a bit different.

Correct people if you want to regarding how you're addressed, but don't bust a gut over it all. Or blow-out a spleen over it if you want to; it's your life.