faculty being considered "hybrid" -- is this a new thing?

[marshwiggle]

For the past decade, I've worked for employers in three different states. I have always lived in the tristate area, but alternated between two different states. I have always paid taxes in all three. Two as a non-resident and one as a resident. Depending on which state I've actually lived in , the resident taxes could be really high because one state taxes all income earned, anywhere, at the resident rate. But my rate has never actually been based on where I was at any given time, but where I lived. So the OP's situation doesn't really make sense to me because I pay state tax to my home state on income earned in the other states, no matter where I actually do the work.

Some states are just super special.

Over a couple of years, I lived in 6 states, three of which were adjoining states and I worked an assortment of jobs in many but not all of those states, and I only had to pay taxes based on what I made when I lived in each state, and only for the amount of time I lived in those states. Like sane public policy.

And then one year I worked & lived in two not adjoining states; I moved to Special State That Operates like JerseyJay's state in July, as academics do, for a new job. That year, I paid taxes in Old State on what I earned in Old State - and only in old state - but when I moved to Special State, I paid taxes to Special State on what I made while living and working in Special State as well as what I made living and working in Old State from January to July.

Because some states are super special.

I guess special state had higher taxes than old state, so you ended up paying taxes in the old state and the tax difference between special state and old state to the special state?

Oh that is far too kind an interpretation.

I had friends who resided in that Special State and who bought cars out of state and paid that sales tax at point of sale, and then they got socked with the full Special State sales tax when they tried to register the car in special state.

Out of curiosity, is Special State red or blue?

[research_prof]

For the past decade, I've worked for employers in three different states. I have always lived in the tristate area, but alternated between two different states. I have always paid taxes in all three. Two as a non-resident and one as a resident. Depending on which state I've actually lived in , the resident taxes could be really high because one state taxes all income earned, anywhere, at the resident rate. But my rate has never actually been based on where I was at any given time, but where I lived. So the OP's situation doesn't really make sense to me because I pay state tax to my home state on income earned in the other states, no matter where I actually do the work.

Some states are just super special.

Over a couple of years, I lived in 6 states, three of which were adjoining states and I worked an assortment of jobs in many but not all of those states, and I only had to pay taxes based on what I made when I lived in each state, and only for the amount of time I lived in those states. Like sane public policy.

And then one year I worked & lived in two not adjoining states; I moved to Special State That Operates like JerseyJay's state in July, as academics do, for a new job. That year, I paid taxes in Old State on what I earned in Old State - and only in old state - but when I moved to Special State, I paid taxes to Special State on what I made while living and working in Special State as well as what I made living and working in Old State from January to July.

Because some states are super special.

I guess special state had higher taxes than old state, so you ended up paying taxes in the old state and the tax difference between special state and old state to the special state?

Oh that is far too kind an interpretation.

I had friends who resided in that Special State and who bought cars out of state and paid that sales tax at point of sale, and then they got socked with the full Special State sales tax when they tried to register the car in special state.

Double taxation is illegal per federal law. The same income cannot be taxed twice (however, one could pay the highest tax rate among states when multiple states are involved). The same applies to sales tax. A sale happens only once and typically tax is paid either where the sale took place or based on where the buyer resides (not sure which case is more common). I would be very curious to hear more about Special State.

[dismalist]

For the past decade, I've worked for employers in three different states. I have always lived in the tristate area, but alternated between two different states. I have always paid taxes in all three. Two as a non-resident and one as a resident. Depending on which state I've actually lived in , the resident taxes could be really high because one state taxes all income earned, anywhere, at the resident rate. But my rate has never actually been based on where I was at any given time, but where I lived. So the OP's situation doesn't really make sense to me because I pay state tax to my home state on income earned in the other states, no matter where I actually do the work.

Some states are just super special.

Over a couple of years, I lived in 6 states, three of which were adjoining states and I worked an assortment of jobs in many but not all of those states, and I only had to pay taxes based on what I made when I lived in each state, and only for the amount of time I lived in those states. Like sane public policy.

And then one year I worked & lived in two not adjoining states; I moved to Special State That Operates like JerseyJay's state in July, as academics do, for a new job. That year, I paid taxes in Old State on what I earned in Old State - and only in old state - but when I moved to Special State, I paid taxes to Special State on what I made while living and working in Special State as well as what I made living and working in Old State from January to July.

Because some states are super special.

I guess special state had higher taxes than old state, so you ended up paying taxes in the old state and the tax difference between special state and old state to the special state?

Oh that is far too kind an interpretation.

I had friends who resided in that Special State and who bought cars out of state and paid that sales tax at point of sale, and then they got socked with the full Special State sales tax when they tried to register the car in special state.

Double taxation is illegal per federal law. The same income cannot be taxed twice (however, one could pay the highest tax rate among states when multiple states are involved). The same applies to sales tax. A sale happens only once and typically tax is paid either where the sale took place or based on where the buyer resides (not sure which case is more common). I would be very curious to hear more about Special State.

Sane tax systems try to avoid double taxation. The sales tax on automobiles, a consumption tax, is collected where you reside. [You can't do that with all sales taxes -- such as on my out-of-state hot dog consumption, but you can do it with cars.] One doesn't pay twice. There are arrangements, which vary, on how to pay the tax where you live.

Also, collecting the sales tax on cars twice discriminates against out-of-state car dealers, completely illegal in interstate commerce.

The Special State does not exist. I suspect that the story is incomplete. Perhaps the buyer didn't know how to avoid paying the sales tax twice.

[jerseyjay]

I don't know if I live in Special State but this is how it works for me, which is how I thought it worked elsewhere but I am evidently wrong.

I live in a Tristate Area (States A, B, and C). It is common for people to live in work in different states, although I suppose I am somewhat special because I live in the urban area and work in the suburban area, and I work in all three states.

At the moment, I live in A, and work in A (part time), B (full time) and C (part time). I file taxes in all three states. (My accountant loves me since it triples his fees.)

All states take out some form of state taxes from my paycheck.

For B and C, I pay non-resident taxes. I usually get some sort of refund, because the non-resident taxes are lower than resident taxes.

For A, I pay residential taxes. I usually end up having to pay several thousand dollars every April because the residential taxes are higher than non residential taxes.

Ten years ago, I lived in B, and worked in A. State A took out taxes at a rate reflecting more or less the residential tax rate for state B. I had to file taxes in A and B, but always got a refund from State A and usually did not owe anything for B. This is one reason why many people who live in B commute to A. (That being said, A has higher income tax, but lower property taxes. It also tends to have better public services, and in any case I prefer to live in A even though it really does not make narrow financial sense.) A while ago I worked for an employer in State D, and paid non resident taxes there as well.

[AvidReader]

Double taxation is illegal per federal law. The same income cannot be taxed twice (however, one could pay the highest tax rate among states when multiple states are involved). The same applies to sales tax. A sale happens only once and typically tax is paid either where the sale took place or based on where the buyer resides (not sure which case is more common). I would be very curious to hear more about Special State.

I know of at least two states that assess high fees on cars bought out of state at the point at which they are registered in state (the fees in current state happen to be the same percentage as sales tax). We were socked by this on our last move, because the value of our car increased during COVID and they assessed the fee as a percentage of the vehicle's blue book value.

AR.

[dismalist]

Double taxation is illegal per federal law. The same income cannot be taxed twice (however, one could pay the highest tax rate among states when multiple states are involved). The same applies to sales tax. A sale happens only once and typically tax is paid either where the sale took place or based on where the buyer resides (not sure which case is more common). I would be very curious to hear more about Special State.

I know of at least two states that assess high fees on cars bought out of state at the point at which they are registered in state (the fees in current state happen to be the same percentage as sales tax). We were socked by this on our last move, because the value of our car increased during COVID and they assessed the fee as a percentage of the vehicle's blue book value.

AR.

Sounds like you "imported" your own car from another State. Any change in registration or title is taxed. Sales tax would have been charged even if the transaction were completely done within State. There is no discrimination against other States. Pay and be happy. :-)

[glowdart]

Oh, there's nothing missing from the story. In some states near Special State, you can pay Special State sales tax when purchasing out of state and not get hit twice with sales tax. A few states have agreements between states, where you might get hit with the difference and/or the county sales tax will be added at the BMV.

But if you, as a resident, buy a car out of state in one of many states with no agreement, then you pay the Special State sales tax upon registering the car.

It's only unbelievable until you live there for a couple of years or have to warn new colleagues about all the ways you don't expect to get hammered with taxes.

[Caracal]

Yes, we had to do the same thing-- this is a legitimate tax issue in areas where people may work in one state but live in another. It was just a quick and simple form for us, not a big deal to do, and if live in the same state as your employer it won't change anything.

How has this changed recently? There have been truckers, airline employees, travelling salespeople, etc. for decades whose "work" often happens far from where they live. It's not clear to me how remote work now is any different, since even working remotely the employer is in a defined (and stationary) place. Wouldn't any tax implications in all of those cases simply be based on where the employer is located, rather than where the employee functions?

One can find [too many] examples of who owes State income taxes where. I infer a principle: Pay where you live, but a State in which you don't live, but earn the income, want's and gets its fair share of your income tax payment. It's always been that way, before the advent of remote working. In general, the details of States' tax laws see to it that there is no double taxation.

[Now, if only we had exclusively consumption taxes. Then, I'd pay where I eat! :-)]

One consequence of this principle is that professional athletes have to pay state income tax in every state where they played a game and figure our their income on a per-game basis. (If you get a bonus for hitting 20 homers, are you taxed on that bonus only in the state where the 20th was hit?) For the millionaires, paying an accountant to file all those returns isn't too bad. I feel for minor leagues and such where the pay is low and the travel high.

I don't believe they have to do that. First of all, there are usually special provisions for athletes and entertainers. Regardless, a couple of years ago congress passed an act that you aren't liable for any state taxes unless you primarily work in one location for more than 30 days in a year.

I'm pretty sure what's happening is that with  more hybrid work, there's lots of legal and tax advice about the need for organizations to make sure they are following the rules. The problem is that with some jobs, hybrid and remote labels don't apply very well. Academia isn't unique in this. There have always been a fair number of jobs where nobody really cares where you are, or what you are doing at any particular moment, as long as you show up in person when you are required to, and get your work done.

If a professor doesn't teach or have any meeting on campus on Fridays, they probably are doing work at home, but there's no requirement or expectation that they are. They could have left town for a long weekend vacation on Thursday night, or home with their kid, or sitting on their couch watching TV. The concept of remote work just doesn't make much sense in that context. It seems like the status quo has been to deal with this situation by ignoring it, which is often how this stuff works, but it is possible that tacit agreement might be breaking down.

[Mobius]

Did Congress pass an act limiting state taxation of non-residents? I can't find anything except a bill that was introduced, but no action was taken.

[Caracal]

Did Congress pass an act limiting state taxation of non-residents? I can't find anything except a bill that was introduced, but no action was taken.

Oh no, you're right, that's my mistake, it's just a proposed bill. For what it's worth, I'm sure this is annoying to minor leaguers, but it's probably nothing more than that. The team gives them W2s for the money they earn in each state, so I don't think it would create a particularly complex tax situation, just an irritating one.

[lightning]

Did Congress pass an act limiting state taxation of non-residents? I can't find anything except a bill that was introduced, but no action was taken.

Oh no, you're right, that's my mistake, it's just a proposed bill. For what it's worth, I'm sure this is annoying to minor leaguers, but it's probably nothing more than that. The team gives them W2s for the money they earn in each state, so I don't think it would create a particularly complex tax situation, just an irritating one.

We have a small handful of part-time online-only faculty (employees--not contractors) who managed to permanently convert their jobs to remote jobs. For state tax purposes, they get taxed as residents of the state where they reside (also where they are supposedly doing their work). They don't get taxed as residents nor non-residents of the state where their employer, a public university, is located.

If the watch dogs find out that we are sending $ out of state to pay these remote workers, and that $ won't re-circulate back into the state's economy, and to add insult to injury, the state can't even tax the earnings of those workers, I can see the admin critters using that as a reason to tell these people to move back home, or lose their jobs.

[AvidReader]

I know of at least two states that assess high fees on cars bought out of state at the point at which they are registered in state (the fees in current state happen to be the same percentage as sales tax). We were socked by this on our last move, because the value of our car increased during COVID and they assessed the fee as a percentage of the vehicle's blue book value.

A forumite queried this and I've learned that my information is half out of date. One of the states that used to have import fees on new cars (Florida) no longer does. Looks as if they may even have been asked to refund some of the fees.

AR.