CHE:International students are back, but a changed demographic

[Hibush]

https://www.chronicle.com/article/number-of-new-chinese-students-at-u-s-colleges-plummeted-this-fall-visa-data-show

This article covers new F1 visas issued to students enrolling in the fall (all degrees). Hardly any visas were issued in 2020, but the 2021 numbers were back to the usual ~250k and 2022 is actually a hair higher.

The main change in composition is that visas to Chinese students dropped to half (from 87K to 47K) while India more than made up for it, increasing from 33K to 84K. About 3/4 of Indian students are grad students. I wonder how many are doing an MS in CS, because that is all you read about on the grad-admissions boards. They note that the wait time for a visa interview at the US Embassy in India is 430 days, so those numbers may go up. (What is the likelihood of staffing the embassy to match demand?)

They attribute the decline in Chinese matriculators to official hostility from the US Government and softer exchange rate. Hong Kong and Britain look like a better deal. Also, a weaker economy reduces the savings and makes job prospects on return less lucrative.

The

[aprof]

Interesting, thanks. We have definitely seen exactly this trend at my institution.  It's quite a big decline in Chinese grad students and rise in Indian students in just a few years.  There is likely a geopolitical component to it and also perhaps Chinese students are seeing their own universities and economy as near-peer.

estimated that college students from China added $15.9 billion to the American economy during the 2019-20 academic year — and much of it benefited colleges' bottom lines since most Chinese students pay the full cost of tuition.

Granted, I did not read the other article but that seems completely backwards to me.  As a large public institution, we have almost no Chinese undergraduates (who would pay tuition out of pocket) but a large cohort of mostly PhD students who are almost universally supported through federal grants or TAs. Perhaps this situation is reversed at many other universities or fields, but it matches what I have seen at other R1s in my STEM field.  Now of course, I think talented students often stay here to contribute to the economy and so are a net benefit on the whole, but I don't see it as big loss of tuition dollars.

[Hibush]

estimated that college students from China added $15.9 billion to the American economy during the 2019-20 academic year — and much of it benefited colleges' bottom lines since most Chinese students pay the full cost of tuition.

Granted, I did not read the other article but that seems completely backwards to me.  As a large public institution, we have almost no Chinese undergraduates (who would pay tuition out of pocket) but a large cohort of mostly PhD students who are almost universally supported through federal grants or TAs. Perhaps this situation is reversed at many other universities or fields, but it matches what I have seen at other R1s in my STEM field.  Now of course, I think talented students often stay here to contribute to the economy and so are a net benefit on the whole, but I don't see it as big loss of tuition dollars.

The University of Illinois had a lot of Chinese students, which is probably the classic large public with both undergrad and business school students paying full tuition. State politics that determine how attractive that strategy is varies a lot. They all seem to want ready access for in-state students but not have the state legislature pay the bill.

The grad programs that make money from international students are probably largely engineering and computer science masters programs, and are full pay. The MS students in the engineering college at my school are >75% international as an example, where PhD students are 75% domestic and supported on grant and assistantships.

[Wahoo Redux]

We suddenly have a number of Kenyan graduate students in several different departments.  It would seem that our school, with its drooping enrollment, has been recruiting overseas for grad students.

[dismalist]

estimated that college students from China added $15.9 billion to the American economy during the 2019-20 academic year — and much of it benefited colleges' bottom lines since most Chinese students pay the full cost of tuition.

Granted, I did not read the other article but that seems completely backwards to me.  As a large public institution, we have almost no Chinese undergraduates (who would pay tuition out of pocket) but a large cohort of mostly PhD students who are almost universally supported through federal grants or TAs. Perhaps this situation is reversed at many other universities or fields, but it matches what I have seen at other R1s in my STEM field.  Now of course, I think talented students often stay here to contribute to the economy and so are a net benefit on the whole, but I don't see it as big loss of tuition dollars.

The University of Illinois had a lot of Chinese students, which is probably the classic large public with both undergrad and business school students paying full tuition. State politics that determine how attractive that strategy is varies a lot. They all seem to want ready access for in-state students but not have the state legislature pay the bill.

The grad programs that make money from international students are probably largely engineering and computer science masters programs, and are full pay. The MS students in the engineering college at my school are >75% international as an example, where PhD students are 75% domestic and supported on grant and assistantships.

To clarify, charging out-of-state students more than in-state students is a mundane example of price discrimination. It adds to revenue. It is always an attractive strategy for the supplier -- here the state legislatures that control the suppliers.

Access for in-state students is obviously effective to the degree the state legislature wants it to be. The students who pay are willing and able to pay.

This can only appear to be a problem for those who might think there should be more students. Some -- in every state -- think there should be fewer students.

[Puget]

I have gotten a huge increase in emails from prospective Iranian grad students this year, and I'm guessing I'm not alone. Some even have MDs. A student visa must look one of the few lifelines out of Iran right now. Such a terrible situation, especially for women.

[apl68]

I have gotten a huge increase in emails from prospective Iranian grad students this year, and I'm guessing I'm not alone. Some even have MDs. A student visa must look one of the few lifelines out of Iran right now. Such a terrible situation, especially for women.

How about Russian grad students?  A lot of Russians have been heading for the exits lately as well.

[Puget]

I have gotten a huge increase in emails from prospective Iranian grad students this year, and I'm guessing I'm not alone. Some even have MDs. A student visa must look one of the few lifelines out of Iran right now. Such a terrible situation, especially for women.

How about Russian grad students?  A lot of Russians have been heading for the exits lately as well.

No Russians. I don't think I've ever been contacted by a Russian prospective grad student actually. I have the sense that Iran has a better higher ed system so US grad school may be more of a possibility.

[aprof]

I have gotten a huge increase in emails from prospective Iranian grad students this year, and I'm guessing I'm not alone. Some even have MDs. A student visa must look one of the few lifelines out of Iran right now. Such a terrible situation, especially for women.

In the past 2 months, I have seen a notable increase in emails from prospective Iranian students, many of whom graduated with their previous degrees 5-10 years ago. Definitely seems connected to the current situation there. 

I have a visitor who is supposed to be coming here next year but I have not heard much from her lately other than, "our internet has been out for many days.  I am hoping to still be able to get my visa...".  Very sad.

[mythbuster]

      I did my PhD at a UC in a Biomedical field. The number of Chinese grad students really dropped off for us when they tightened up the requirements for demonstrating English proficiency beyond just a test score. The cheating on the tests was rampant and we had students who could not communicate with their PI.
   Yes many engineering grad programs are dominated by internationals. I had a friend who got a PhD in Electrical Engineering. She was both the only white person and the only female in her program. Luckily, she has the type of personality hat can handle that well.
   I have gotten LOTS of emails from Bangladeshi and Nepalese students at all. They are clearly spam like emails since we don't have a PhD program, and most already have an MS (which we offer).

     Wahoo, Kenyan grad students are great! English is their language of education, and the way the Kenyan system works, the slackers get weeded out very quickly. Tanzanians are also really good as well. I've known several really great East African grad students sent to work by their government in HIV research labs.

[Wahoo Redux]

          Wahoo, Kenyan grad students are great! English is their language of education, and the way the Kenyan system works, the slackers get weeded out very quickly.

Glad to hear it.  I am happy to have Kenyan students or students from any part of the world on any of our campuses.  Higher ed in North America should be a haven for people from everywhere. 

It's just a new aspect of our school.