Handling grad student

[Kron3007]

If he said that to me, I'd dump him. After all, if he thinks I know nothing, then what am I doing supervising him?

In fact, dumping him is a kindness, since my letter of reference would not be very laudatory. And if he refuses to address feedback, then he's going to fail, and nobody wants to be in harge of a student who fails.

So dump him. You can always take him back when he learns to be an adult instead of the insufferable shitwhistle he is now.

This would be quite hard in my setting.  We submit progress reports each semester, and to drop a student we need pretty solid evidence of the problem.  More importantly, we would need to demonstrate that they have been given adequate time/opportunities to rectify the issues.  Simply dropping a student for a rude remark is not really an option here. 

The bigger question IMO is if the committee member's suggestion is worth integrating?  The student should definitely have more tact, but without knowing any of the details it is hard to know if the suggested changes are critical, or even make sense (student seems to think not).  In the end, it is the student's thesis, and it sounds like they have a pretty solid body of work that they could probably defend.  To be honest, a PhD near the end of their program should know more about their thesis topic than you in many ways.     

[Vid]

mleok: the theoretical changes are just for verification, he has done this before he just needs to add x, y,z and change some parameter ranges and rerun the code.


He did his MS with me as well so 2 out of 5 papers are related to his MS research.

Thank you, all.

[mamselle]

Your use of "outstanding" is still unclarified, to my mind.

M.

[Vid]

mamselle= We registered two patents as part of his Ph.D. research!

we usually publish in high-impact factor journals in my field.

Thank you.

[research_prof]

OP, please fire the student and move on.

[kaysixteen]

The part about his being aggressive and lacking social skills sounds, ahem, like he is a computer nerd Sheldon-type, not someone who would be running for dean.  Thousands of PhDs are (or at least in their 20s were) like that, especially if 'aggressive' means he reacted negatively to a faculty request to change his dissertation focus at the last minute, after having written several 'outstanding' papers.

[PI]

When he said " You don't know anything.". Did you ask him to clarify? I would ask him for an explanation on why he speaks this way. Just let him know that you are disappointed that after this long stretch of working together he can not show professionalism and respect. Let him know you are not interested in continuing this kind of professional relationship. You can give the remaining work to a junior student. Let him move on. Sometimes the department takes pity on these kind of cases and get them to graduate under one of the committee members. How would you feel if that happens? You can also graduate him ASAP and not worry about him ever again. It looks bad to let go of a student in his last semester. So try your best to find a neutral solution.. If you think he has done something worthy of a PhD, try to make it work. But make it clear to him that you are unhappy with his unprofessionalism.

I had a student who lacked social skills..He thought he was too good but was not really.  Even he never ever spoke this way to me. He would overreact to small things in discussions and write long emails. He would not look at your directly when discussing.  It was clear from the get go (only after he really started working) that he had issues. But I was more junior and could not afford to lose students. He was also sincere about his work. So I kept weighing the pros and cons. What I did was to let him graduate faster than usual (with just one paper) just so I don't have to deal with him.. I even wrote a good/neutral letter of recommendation.. But we have no communications since. This is not how things go with my other students. I regretted not letting him go sooner. But once it was past three years, I also didn't want to leave him without a PhD after he had put in time and effort. I did use some of the data from his work in preliminary data for a grant I got.. So overall it turned out okay.

What he lost was possibility of more papers and future strong letters.. I gave the project to a junior student who is outstanding and no personality issues. I realized that it was best to get people who spread toxicity out quickly- at least for your mental peace and the resulting improved productivity in the whole group.

In your case, it seems that he worked with you for his  Masters as well. So how did you not see this until now?

[Vid]

PI: Thank you for sharing your experience. it's really hard to handle a student who thinks he is "too good". part of his MS and Ph.D. were conducted during COVID time- online meetings/defense with no in-person interactions.

He had issues with a female grad student and I gave him a warning notice and reminded him of the JEDI statement of my lab.

Thank you, all.

[Kron3007]

PI: Thank you for sharing your experience. it's really hard to handle a student who thinks he is "too good". part of his MS and Ph.D. were conducted during COVID time- online meetings/defense with no in-person interactions.

He had issues with a female grad student and I gave him a warning notice and reminded him of the JEDI statement of my lab.

Thank you, all.

Covid started in 2020, about 2.5 years ago.  This means you have interacted plenty with this student in person, under regular conditions.  Assuming normal time lines, most, if not all of their MSc program would have been pre-covid, and you decided to take them on for a PhD.

I feel we are not getting the whole story on this. 

[the_geneticist]

Ok, the rapid changing of his plans + bad attitude = time for a mediated discussion on goals, expectations, and deadlines.

To "kick him out" without repercussions (e.g. lawsuits), you have to demonstrate that he has failed to meet clear, agreed-upon expectations.  And if he want to resign and take an industry job, then he has to put his notification in writing.  He can't expect you to pay him while he's not doing his current job.  And the committee (including YOU) decide if he successfully completed his Ph.D, or leaves with a Masters.  Getting a job at Amazon =/= automatic graduation with completion of Ph.D

[kaysixteen]

Still sounds like a perfect computer geek for a high-level, few contacts with others industry job.

When you say he had a 'problem with a female grad student', what are you talking about, and did he say he did not do that thing?

[Vid]

I had a long meeting with him today and I did set the expectations as to how he should respond to the committee comments (respectfully) and how he should disagree respectfully. I told him that I am disappointed by his unprofessional manner and won't be interested in continuing working with him if he repeats his action again. I wrote a planning statement for the future directions of his dissertation, professional interaction, and our support in pursuit of post-program employment.

Our univ provides different types of therapy (emotion regulation skills, distress tolerance skills, etc.) and I told him to register for those courses and show me the evidence of completion.

Thank you for your suggestion and feedback. You guys are AWESOME.

[kaysixteen]

Your school gives faculty the right to insist on mandatory psychotherapy for students?

[AJ_Katz]

Way to go, Vid. 

A student like this will likely never rise to your expectations / hopes, but at least you did your due diligence to let him know that his behavior was not appropriate, explained what is appropriate, and clearly articulated your expectations.  You've done your best as your advisor and whatever he makes of it is his own prerogative.

[kaysixteen]

Ok, let me pose a hypothetical-- OP has ordered student to get some psychotherapy in order, presumably, to be allowed to continue in his doctoral program.   What happens if the kid tells OP to go pound sand?