New School and Parsons School of Design Adjunct Professors Go on Strike

[Wahoo Redux]

Time to let the weak parts collapse and then rebuild with something cheaper and less worthwhile.

At least some of the rebuilding is bound to be better than the weak parts that collapse.

Actually, many of the "weak parts" are doing quite well in all criteria except for enrollment.  We will have trade schools or the equivalent instead of universities, and perhaps that is for the best.

The patient is in great health, other than being dead.

Oh silly Marshman.

Good teachers.
Good scholars.
Good students.
Societal good from their work.
Many scholars waiting in the wings.
Many more eager to become scholars.

That describes many of the very healthy "weak parts" which some *ahem* misinformed peeps, often in STEM, seem unable to comprehend.

[marshwiggle]

Time to let the weak parts collapse and then rebuild with something cheaper and less worthwhile.

At least some of the rebuilding is bound to be better than the weak parts that collapse.

Actually, many of the "weak parts" are doing quite well in all criteria except for enrollment.  We will have trade schools or the equivalent instead of universities, and perhaps that is for the best.

The patient is in great health, other than being dead.

Oh silly Marshman.

Good teachers.
Good scholars.
Good students.
Societal good from their work.
Many scholars waiting in the wings.
Many more eager to become scholars.

That describes many of the very healthy "weak parts" which some *ahem* misinformed peeps, often in STEM, seem unable to comprehend.

If there aren't enough students who know about the place, or who are interested in going there, it doesn't matter how "good" the experience hypothetically would be. A 5-star Michelin-rated restaurant with no customers is just an empty building with rent owing.

If the student demographic is shrinking, so there aren't enough students to go around, then unless someone is going to argue that every place that exists is of absolutely stellar quality, then the necessary (not merely inevitable) adjustment is for the ones which have the least unique benefits to close down, so that the highest quality is maintained. (And even if somehow funding per student could keep rising to keep everyplace open, even for the students themselves there are things that will suffer as the enrollment drops, since many things like seminars, projects, etc., not to mention extracurriculars, require a certain critical mass to function well.)

[Wahoo Redux]

Marshy, you are a great guy.  But sometimes I think the point just whooshes you by like Maverick in his hypersonic movie plane, so you posit the obvious.  But you are, truly, a good dude, no doubt. 

[marshwiggle]

Marshy, you are a great guy.  But sometimes I think the point just whooshes you by like Maverick in his hypersonic movie plane, so you posit the obvious.  But you are, truly, a good dude, no doubt.

Often I truly don't have a clue what you're getting at. This is one of those times. So please tell me what your proposed solution would be for the realities of declining enrollment, (fuelled in significant part by the demographic decline in the sudent-age population
), which would save all of these "good" places. Related to that, is there ever an enrollment threshold below which a program or institution should be closed if it is "good"?

[Wahoo Redux]

Marshy, you are a great guy.  But sometimes I think the point just whooshes you by like Maverick in his hypersonic movie plane, so you posit the obvious.  But you are, truly, a good dude, no doubt.

Often I truly don't have a clue what you're getting at. This is one of those times. So please tell me what your proposed solution would be for the realities of declining enrollment, (fuelled in significant part by the demographic decline in the sudent-age population
), which would save all of these "good" places. Related to that, is there ever an enrollment threshold below which a program or institution should be closed if it is "good"?

I know you frequently don't get it, my friend.  I am perhaps opaque.  You perhaps always think in simple, argumentative dichotomies.

I think the solution is to let those majors at those schools losing interest in those majors die.  Places like, say, Ohio State or U of Michigan or U of Wisconsin or Berkley will always host a full set of majors. Of course, so will the Ivies and other elite colleges.  Places like the school I just retired from are already closing their low-enrollment majors and programs.  And that is the way it should be if the community does not want to prop those majors up.

Capiche?

I simply think it is a mistake of culture to let disciplines die and this dynamic is too darn bad, especially if all other aspects of the discipline (other than enrollment) are healthy and worthwhile.

I also suspect that the disparity in prestige and quality of students will broaden when we have true liberal arts universities and de facto trade schools.   And I think we will take opportunities away from students of the future.  But if that is what the taxpayers want, so be it.

It's pretty simple, really, oh Mighty Marshman. 

[marshwiggle]

I simply think it is a mistake of culture to let disciplines die and this dynamic is too darn bad, especially if all other aspects of the discipline (other than enrollment) are healthy and worthwhile.

Disciplines aren't going to die. However, a significant factor is fragmentation. As the humanities split into more and more "X Studies, Y Studies, Z Studies, etc., then the combined enrollment may decline slowly, but several of those programs will be non-viable. That's a difficult issue to address because it runs up against "diversity" initiatives.

I also suspect that the disparity in prestige and quality of students will broaden when we have true liberal arts universities and de facto trade schools.   And I think we will take opportunities away from students of the future.  But if that is what the taxpayers want, so be it.

The problem here is that how much benefit a given education will provide depends, not only on the student's interest, but also on the student's ability. The really bright students will be able to be successful after university regardless of what they study, while the weaker students will need the "de facto trade school" education to have employable skills that take time for them to learn, but which the brighter students can learn on-the-job.

(In this way, STEM has similar issues; brighter students will benefit from the broader university-type education, while weaker students will benefit from more vocationally-focused programs.) University isn't the best choice for all of the students who will benefit from some sort of post-secondary education.

[mleok]

The problem here is that how much benefit a given education will provide depends, not only on the student's interest, but also on the student's ability. The really bright students will be able to be successful after university regardless of what they study, while the weaker students will need the "de facto trade school" education to have employable skills that take time for them to learn, but which the brighter students can learn on-the-job.

(In this way, STEM has similar issues; brighter students will benefit from the broader university-type education, while weaker students will benefit from more vocationally-focused programs.) University isn't the best choice for all of the students who will benefit from some sort of post-secondary education.

The idea that every student can benefit and should attend a university providing a broad liberal arts education is at fundamental odds with the reality of the products of our K-12 education system.

[mleok]

I would also push back on the notion that schools without programs in the humanities are necessarily trade schools. I can certainly see places like Caltech and MIT offering a high quality STEM education without requiring any courses in the humanities or social sciences.

[simpleSimon]

It appears all the bad news has taken a toll; President McBride will be gone in two months.  He was only in office for three years.  But getting rid of the president will not solve their problems because their difficulties were brewing long before he came along.  McBride has been a convenient target, but with him out of the picture the New School still faces serious financial challenges.

https://www.newschoolfreepress.com/2023/06/08/dwight-a-mcbride-to-step-down-as-the-new-school-president-at-the-end-of-the-summer/

[lightning]

It appears all the bad news has taken a toll; President McBride will be gone in two months.  He was only in office for three years.  But getting rid of the president will not solve their problems because their difficulties were brewing long before he came along.  McBride has been a convenient target, but with him out of the picture the New School still faces serious financial challenges.

https://www.newschoolfreepress.com/2023/06/08/dwight-a-mcbride-to-step-down-as-the-new-school-president-at-the-end-of-the-summer/

The only bad news is for New School.

Three years is long enough for McBride to make bank. He made $3,444,000 in those three years, AND he's got a sweet new job waiting for him at Washington University.

McBride's detractors may think that their efforts "has taken a toll." In reality, even though McBride will take the shame walk, so his enemies can get their satisfaction, he'll be laughing all the way to the bank. And, while he's standing in line at the bank, McBride's enemies will be holding an empty bag of nothing.

[apl68]

And to think that only three decades ago Vanderbilt University students were bent out of shape over the fact that then-Chancellor Joe B. Wyatt was the highest-paid university head in the country--at $300,000 per year.

[ciao_yall]

It appears all the bad news has taken a toll; President McBride will be gone in two months.  He was only in office for three years.  But getting rid of the president will not solve their problems because their difficulties were brewing long before he came along.  McBride has been a convenient target, but with him out of the picture the New School still faces serious financial challenges.

https://www.newschoolfreepress.com/2023/06/08/dwight-a-mcbride-to-step-down-as-the-new-school-president-at-the-end-of-the-summer/

The only bad news is for New School.

Three years is long enough for McBride to make bank. He made $3,444,000 in those three years, AND he's got a sweet new job waiting for him at Washington University.

McBride's detractors may think that their efforts "has taken a toll." In reality, even though McBride will take the shame walk, so his enemies can get their satisfaction, he'll be laughing all the way to the bank. And, while he's standing in line at the bank, McBride's enemies will be holding an empty bag of nothing.

My ambition is to be a really incompetent College President.

[simpleSimon]

I don't think McBride had any "real" enemies.  He was just a convenient target; anyone in the President's office would have been similarly targeted.  Troubles at TNS have been brewing for more than a dozen years... the Board needs to take a hard look at itself and the decisions they have been making.  McBride will be fine; another presidency is waiting for him if he wants it.

[spork]

I would also push back on the notion that schools without programs in the humanities are necessarily trade schools. I can certainly see places like Caltech and MIT offering a high quality STEM education without requiring any courses in the humanities or social sciences.

Fixed that for you.