CHE Article: "What a Possible U. of Phoenix Sale Says About the State of Higher"

[dismalist]

They are really struggling to meet the new requirement that a measly 10% of tuition revenue be from students paying tuition on their own, because the education is worth it.

Who requires this, Hibush? A university? A state? the feds? Anybody know?

I googled, but found nothing relevant.

It's a Department of Education regulation known as the 90-10 rule: https://www.highereddive.com/news/education-department-finalizes-9010-rule-college-ownership-regulations/635183/

Thank you so much! I hadn't known.

Of course I see why this is being done. But it implicitly assumes that private payers are better informed than those receiving government money. In addition, it does have the effect of insulating the existing higher ed sector from new competition.

The for profit higher ed institutions messed up badly except for their own short run -- take the money and run. Where they messed up is in not recognizing that the diplomas [degree mill] was not what employers wanted, but rather they want the good housekeeping seal of approval that you worked hard enough to pass, showed up for class to graduate, and brushed your teeth most days [signalling].

I don't know the relative data, but maybe the same 90/10 rule could be profitably applied to non-profits. :-)

[simpleSimon]

"They are really struggling to meet the new requirement that a measly 10% of tuition revent be from students paying tuition on their own, because the education is worth it.".... I am not sure I get this?   

In any case, does anyone here actually know anyone who ever, with their UoP 'degree', 1) got an actual job related to said degree, and/or 2) got into grad or professional school somewhere else, based on said degree?

I do.  He has a Master's from UoP and most of us give him the side eye. In the time I have known this individual, he has held three positions, but in each case, he was appointed to the position via an old boy network; his friends (higher up in the organization) created two positions for him that did not exist previously and that no one else could apply for.  Had there been an open search he certainly would not have been chosen for any of the positions.  He is constantly putting his foot in his mouth and people around him have to clean up the mess.  He is 64; we are all holding our nose until he leaves. The other day a colleague asked me what was wrong with the guy.  I said I can describe him in three words: Univ. Of Phoenix.  We are all embarrassed to have him in our midst.

[Wahoo Redux]

Many moons ago on the old CHE Fora I posted about the number of staff members who "attended" proprietary schools and received their "doctorates" from these schools.  One was a work-friend and I helped her write her "dissertation."  She turned in something that maybe would have gotten a "B" in a freshman composition class and yet got her a "PhD" from Capella U.  All these people actually worked for the school already, none were faculty, but my understanding was that they would get pay bumps.  All had their nameplates altered to say "Ph.D." after their names.

[lightning]

Many moons ago on the old CHE Fora I posted about the number of staff members who "attended" proprietary schools and received their "doctorates" from these schools.  One was a work-friend and I helped her write her "dissertation."  She turned in something that maybe would have gotten a "B" in a freshman composition class and yet got her a "PhD" from Capella U.  All these people actually worked for the school already, none were faculty, but my understanding was that they would get pay bumps.  All had their nameplates altered to say "Ph.D." after their names.

Huh? Doesn't your university have tuition scholarships for their own staff, so they can earn a degree at the same university where they work?

Now . . . . if your university does grant scholarships and release time/flexible scheduling for its own employees to earn a degree where they work, but they choose to get a PhD from a dumpster for-profit, your university needs to re-think its rewards system for additional degrees earned. If one of our staff earned a Ph.D. from a for-profit and had the audacity to draw attention to it, they wouldn't have the credibility anymore to do their job properly.

[simpleSimon]

Many moons ago on the old CHE Fora I posted about the number of staff members who "attended" proprietary schools and received their "doctorates" from these schools.  One was a work-friend and I helped her write her "dissertation."  She turned in something that maybe would have gotten a "B" in a freshman composition class and yet got her a "PhD" from Capella U.  All these people actually worked for the school already, none were faculty, but my understanding was that they would get pay bumps.  All had their nameplates altered to say "Ph.D." after their names.

Huh? Doesn't your university have tuition scholarships for their own staff, so they can earn a degree at the same university where they work?

Now . . . . if your university does grant scholarships and release time/flexible scheduling for its own employees to earn a degree where they work, but they choose to get a PhD from a dumpster for-profit, your university needs to re-think its rewards system for additional degrees earned. If one of our staff earned a Ph.D. from a for-profit and had the audacity to draw attention to it, they wouldn't have the credibility anymore to do their job properly.

No.  Not every school offers this; my current institution does not.

[Wahoo Redux]

Many moons ago on the old CHE Fora I posted about the number of staff members who "attended" proprietary schools and received their "doctorates" from these schools.  One was a work-friend and I helped her write her "dissertation."  She turned in something that maybe would have gotten a "B" in a freshman composition class and yet got her a "PhD" from Capella U.  All these people actually worked for the school already, none were faculty, but my understanding was that they would get pay bumps.  All had their nameplates altered to say "Ph.D." after their names.

Huh? Doesn't your university have tuition scholarships for their own staff, so they can earn a degree at the same university where they work?

Now . . . . if your university does grant scholarships and release time/flexible scheduling for its own employees to earn a degree where they work, but they choose to get a PhD from a dumpster for-profit, your university needs to re-think its rewards system for additional degrees earned. If one of our staff earned a Ph.D. from a for-profit and had the audacity to draw attention to it, they wouldn't have the credibility anymore to do their job properly.

This was a rural Div III "teaching college" run by lunatics and A-holes.  They never re-thought anything except for how to clog up the system with campus culture surveys and buying worser and worser technology.

There were no Ph.D. programs at the uni in question, and these folks that did the dumpster degrees could not have finished a true doctoral degree anyway.  My theory is that one of these staff folks saw a commercial and wanted to feel like one of the cool kids and the other staff liked the idear themselves.

[financeguy]

I do know a few people who actually have gotten a job or grad degree following UofP. Couple examples:

-One got into a decent law school. No matter what they say, law programs ONLY care about your GPA and LSAT since those are the numbers used to determine rankings. A 3.98 from Phoenix is better than a 3.1 from Chicago in this context if the LSAT score is the same.

-One actually got into a humanities doctoral program at USC! I have no idea how this happened, but have to assume there was a personal connection.

-MANY have moved up in their current role. Although the credential might not have gotten them the job, once you have the job and simply need to check the box, they're just as good, if not better than a traditional program since flexibility is paramount. This is especially the case with nearly everyone in a GS government role.

[jerseyjay]

In terms of issues raised in this thread:

1. $2800 per (online) course is on the low side, but not slave-labor low, especially if there is not much day-to-day work. I taught online for a community college at $4100 per semester; my university pays $5300 (online and in-person) per semester to adjuncts (higher for full-time staff on overload); and the public university near where I live pays $6000 per semester if you have a PhD. A 10-week online course might be less work than a 14-week in-person course at a research university.

2. I have known various people who have got UofP, Capella, etc degrees. These are usually paid by the school, and usually for some sort of credential that doesn't really have that much to do with the actual job. Many have been mid-level administrators in positions that it is not common for professors go into--for example, people in the athletic department, or student life, etc. I don't think anybody would confuse these with the same sort of PhDs that professors have, but I am not sure that a Yale PhD in English or a Berkeley PhD in Physics would really help somebody in these jobs, either. My school does not offer doctorates and, to be honest, many of its master's degrees are not that great, either.