Students Pursuing Minimally Relevant Topics

[financeguy]

I guess this question falls into the informal mentoring part as students reach the end of their program. I frequently get people that are about to complete their studies (full academic program allowing for professional designation/licensure) asking me if they should do another program, license, credential or certificate that is of minimal relevance. This is often extremely misguided if their career goals are to pursue the path they've initially started, but there seems to be the unshakable idea the "more" is better.

I have asked students to look at the bios of people whose outcome they would like to have, none of whom have taken the "buffet" approach by earning 5 slightly related credentials. Many seem extremely set on the path that they've chosen and are only looking to receive validation, not actual information. This is potentially harmful to them since my industry (most other fields as well?) has very strong opinions on what qualifications are desired and no one is looking to the outside for someone to "make up their own way" in with no focus.

Is this something common to your field? (Someone keeps getting multiple masters or certs instead of biting the bullet and focusing?) What's your approach been? Maybe I'm misguided and this is common in other fields...yours?

[marshwiggle]

I guess this question falls into the informal mentoring part as students reach the end of their program. I frequently get people that are about to complete their studies (full academic program allowing for professional designation/licensure) asking me if they should do another program, license, credential or certificate that is of minimal relevance. This is often extremely misguided if their career goals are to pursue the path they've initially started, but there seems to be the unshakable idea the "more" is better.

I have asked students to look at the bios of people whose outcome they would like to have, none of whom have taken the "buffet" approach by earning 5 slightly related credentials. Many seem extremely set on the path that they've chosen and are only looking to receive validation, not actual information. This is potentially harmful to them since my industry (most other fields as well?) has very strong opinions on what qualifications are desired and no one is looking to the outside for someone to "make up their own way" in with no focus.

Is this something common to your field? (Someone keeps getting multiple masters or certs instead of biting the bullet and focusing?) What's your approach been? Maybe I'm misguided and this is common in other fields...yours?

One thing I've noticed, and I've heard others comment on, is that GenZ's seem to be obsessed with their "career path". They feel every decision they make is going to have lifelong significance. One aspect of that is that they change jobs frequently, with the idea that each position makes some input into their "skillset", and they are always looking for a new position that pays more, and will broaden their "skillset". Multiple credentials may be another incarnation of that mindset.

[financeguy]

Maybe this isn't about the current job but the belief that it will be useful in the future in some unknown capacity. I hear a lot of phrases like "nice to have" or "keep my options open" which would support the skill set strategy. It's just not likely to lead to success in any job that currently exists and is available that I've seen.

[Caracal]

Maybe this isn't about the current job but the belief that it will be useful in the future in some unknown capacity. I hear a lot of phrases like "nice to have" or "keep my options open" which would support the skill set strategy. It's just not likely to lead to success in any job that currently exists and is available that I've seen.

I wonder if this is just about a fear of leaving school and going through the process of trying to get a professional job. In a different context, I always tell undergrads thinking about grad school that you can just decide not to apply this year without closing any options off. If they decide they really do want to go to grad school after a year or two out of school, they can go do it then. Once someone has actually left school and dealt with the uncertainties involved and (hopefully) found a job, they are usually in a better position to assess whether they really want to go do more school or if it was just that it seemed like a clearer path. If these students really do find that some additional degree would be helpful, there's no reason they couldn't get it later.

[secundem_artem]

I'm in a health field where even your entry level job is determined by your credentials to a fair extent.  Everybody graduates with the same degree and if that's all you have, I can pretty much assure you, your job is going to suck.  Any student here with more than 6 neurons all shaking hands is doing a dual degree, a minor, an area of concentration or otherwise adding something of value beyond the entry level degree. And that's just to get into the post grad training that ~ 50% of them hope to pursue. Those that don't are mostly limited to a well paying but not too pleasant job and for which the future is uncertain.

[dismalist]

I've seen this long before Generation  Z.

The scramble for more credentials is individually rational and collectively wasteful. The credentials signal to the employer: I've jumped through so many hoops!

One could point students to the most beneficial credentials, keeping in mind their cost. Postponing further study is also a good idea, at least until after a job search.

[ciao_yall]

If the extra certificate/minor/etc is going to delay graduation, might this be a case of fearing the future?

As soon as I graduate... but first, someone told me that their cousin got a certificate in Underwater Basket Weaving and, as it turned out, they got a job in a Basketweaving company and so it really helped their career!

So maybe I should wait to graduate for another year?

[Parasaurolophus]

If the extra certificate/minor/etc is going to delay graduation, might this be a case of fearing the future?

As soon as I graduate... but first, someone told me that their cousin got a certificate in Underwater Basket Weaving and, as it turned out, they got a job in a Basketweaving company and so it really helped their career!

So maybe I should wait to graduate for another year?

It delays loan repayment, too.

[mythbuster]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

[Puget]

Adjacent to my field, there a bunch of fancy sounding but generally useless and over-priced coursework-only masters programs that I think are quite predatory. And I'm not talking about at for-profits-- these are often cash cows for elite institutions (looking at you Harvard!). I always try to talk students out of these and into either entry-level jobs in the field or applied masters/certificate programs that are necessary and sufficient for many applied careers in the field (e.g., MSW, school psych).

I've noticed my Chinese international students are particularly drawn to the fancy-but-useless programs though, and can't be talked out of them. Recently one of these students set me straight that they are not naive in choosing these programs-- a brand-name US degree will get them ahead in China, and it doesn't really matter what it is in, so long as it has an Ivy's name on it. Since they are generally from wealthy families, the family sees these programs as a good investment. So it is actually a perfectly rational choice to buy prestige. I still think the programs are predatory, but they clearly did their market analysis and are providing a product there is demand for.

[Caracal]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

I got my masters after I passed comps. It was sort of like the prize that they give out midway through the competition show. You don't get the 10k dollars yet, but here's a stand mixer...

It does seem to be becoming more common for people in my field to get the masters first and then get the the PHD at a different school. It involves doing the coursework and comps again usually. I think it can put students into a better position to get a fully funded admittance to a doctoral program at an elite school, but it also is a cash cow in a way that PHD programs rarely are, so I have my doubts that many of these programs are really a good idea for most students.

[MarathonRunner]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

Very few programs in my field in Canada accept students into PhD programs without a masters. I think there are two. What's more common is for outstanding masters students to be promoted to the PhD program before they've finished their masters.

[Caracal]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

Very few programs in my field in Canada accept students into PhD programs without a masters. I think there are two. What's more common is for outstanding masters students to be promoted to the PhD program before they've finished their masters.

Is the PHD program completely separate from the masters in terms of content? In my humanities field, usually a terminal masters just means that you don't write the dissertation, and instead write a much shorter masters thesis.

[marshwiggle]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

Very few programs in my field in Canada accept students into PhD programs without a masters. I think there are two. What's more common is for outstanding masters students to be promoted to the PhD program before they've finished their masters.

Is the PHD program completely separate from the masters in terms of content? In my humanities field, usually a terminal masters just means that you don't write the dissertation, and instead write a much shorter masters thesis.

I think US *Humanities are kind of unique this way. It's reflected in the fact that PhD completion times can be 6 or 7 years in the US (without a Master's), versus 2 or 3 years most other places (with a Master's). I'm not sure what the history is behind it.


(*I haven't heard of it in STEM in the US.)

[mythbuster]

In Biomedical sciences, the big divide is over funding. PhD programs are funded, while MS programs are not. As a result, many programs only have PhD programs. The MS is the consolation prize if you drop out midstream.