Tipping and tipping norms

[Sun_Worshiper]

I'm sure you've visited a coffee shop and, after making your order with a credit card, been asked to leave a tip. You've probably had this experience at some other sorts of establishments too, such as a restaurant where you order at the counter and bus your own table, or even a convenience store (or even an automated convenience store with no human workers - perhaps at the Newark Airport). It seems that tipping has gone from something reserved for a few workers with very low minimum wages, such as bartenders and waiters, to something that is solicited and increasingly expected for a host of transactions. And even though many customers appear not to like this,* trendy magazines have declared that the rules of tipping have changed.**

So what do you say? Do you embrace these new tipping norms or reject them - whether on principle or out of frugality?

* https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tipping-control-consumers-96609175
** https://www.thecut.com/article/tipping-rules-etiquette-rules.html#tipping

[research_prof]

I have stopped going to stores that expect me to tip without even providing table service. I can afford tipping, but I am increasingly frustrated that I am expected to work my butt off and spend my hard-earned $$$ on tipping workers at stores that do not provide any actual service. To this end, I have simply stopped going to such stores. Store owners should rather pay their employees higher salaries instead of expecting customers to subsidize the salaries they pay.

PS: In the same manner, I would like my university to ask students to tip me for my service at the end of the semester.

[onthefringe]

Now that I can afford it I tip everywhere and with abandon. Even if some of the workers aren't making the ridiculous "tips will make up for ridiculously low hourly wages" rate, they generally aren't making much on an objective scale. And while I agree it would be better if employers payed their employees a reasonable amount, that's clearly not going to happen. So I make the calculation that a dollar tip on a coffee might mean a lot to the barista, and the difference between a $3 and $4 coffee means basically nothing to me and tip the dollar.

And I know that I speak from a place of privilege and don't think that people who can't afford tipping in this way need to follow my lead.

[dismalist]

Tipping is a convention. What the firms which are trying to slide into the convention are trying to do is have customers sign the checks for wages instead of the employers, of course, as everyone realizes. However, total wages won't change -- if total payments get high, more people are attracted to such jobs and the employer payment goes down. The cost of labor -- tip or non-tip -- goes into the price paid for the service offered.

Tipping does allow free riders, so some customers benefit, but the average employee in such activities is not hurt, for low tipping reduces employment, pushing up the part of the wage paid by the employer.

In the big scheme of things, it doesn't matter whether I tip or not.

[research_prof]

The cost of labor -- tip or non-tip -- goes into the price paid for the service offered.

That is exactly my argument. If you talk to a business owner though, they will tell you that paying their employees $2-3 more per hour will reduce their profit margin from 50% to 35% or so. These profit margins are still crazy high. So the owner cares about their money, does not pay their employees well enough, and asks customers to pay for the service offered through the price they pay at the counter, but also contribute to the employee's salary, so that the business owner can maintain their ridiculously high profit margins.

The other thing I have noticed is that typically non-chain businesses ask you to tip. Chain businesses usually do not ask you to tip, which is funny since store owners have to pay (on top of everything else) a royalty to the corporate offices for every dollar they make. So, I would personally think it would be in their best interest to ask you to tip, so that they pay their employees even less. Maybe corporate does not allow tipping. Who knows?

PS: In the affluent locations of California, I have been to a hair saloon, where the owner of the salon also works there in addition to having several other employees. Even the owner of the saloon was expecting to tip her. Yes, the owner of the salon was expecting a tip for her own salary. She was telling me that while cutting my hair and also telling me that her business is worth a million dollars because it is in the Bay Area... so much ridiculous greediness.

[Ruralguy]

A number of businesses disallow tipping. I rarely see it outside of anything to do with food..maybe a barber. Some people tip mechanics I guess, but I never have.

[research_prof]

A number of businesses disallow tipping. I rarely see it outside of anything to do with food..maybe a barber. Some people tip mechanics I guess, but I never have.

It is much more than food: food, coffee, bars, barber shops, hair salons, uber/lyft, other delivery services (including groceries), beauty salons. Basically, any job where the employer does not want to pay a living wage (or they pay a living wage but the employee wants more than that). I suggest universities start doing that for faculty as well.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

A number of businesses disallow tipping. I rarely see it outside of anything to do with food..maybe a barber. Some people tip mechanics I guess, but I never have.

It is much more than food: food, coffee, bars, barber shops, hair salons, uber/lyft, other delivery services (including groceries), beauty salons. Basically, any job where the employer does not want to pay a living wage (or they pay a living wage but the employee wants more than that). I suggest universities start doing that for faculty as well.

Pretty much this. Tipping should be optional.

[downer]

Basically, any job where the employer does not want to pay a living wage (or they pay a living wage but the employee wants more than that). I suggest universities start doing that for faculty as well.

I should start putting a link for Venmo contributions in my email signature.

[RatGuy]

In recent years, students have been sending me $25 Amazon / Starbucks cards on final exam day. I don't feel comfortable accepting them (I forward them to our office admin to use). Maybe I'd feel different if I added a Cashapp to my syllabus.

I tip restaurant, bakery, barber. I don't tip fast food style places — around here, such places use Apple Pay, so I assume that's "extra" gratuity.

[ciao_yall]

Now that I can afford it I tip everywhere and with abandon. Even if some of the workers aren't making the ridiculous "tips will make up for ridiculously low hourly wages" rate, they generally aren't making much on an objective scale. And while I agree it would be better if employers payed their employees a reasonable amount, that's clearly not going to happen. So I make the calculation that a dollar tip on a coffee might mean a lot to the barista, and the difference between a $3 and $4 coffee means basically nothing to me and tip the dollar.

And I know that I speak from a place of privilege and don't think that people who can't afford tipping in this way need to follow my lead.

^ This. ^

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Now that I can afford it I tip everywhere and with abandon. Even if some of the workers aren't making the ridiculous "tips will make up for ridiculously low hourly wages" rate, they generally aren't making much on an objective scale. And while I agree it would be better if employers payed their employees a reasonable amount, that's clearly not going to happen. So I make the calculation that a dollar tip on a coffee might mean a lot to the barista, and the difference between a $3 and $4 coffee means basically nothing to me and tip the dollar.

And I know that I speak from a place of privilege and don't think that people who can't afford tipping in this way need to follow my lead.

^ This. ^

If I'm out and about, have the extra cash and can afford to get a coffee, then I'll tip. I've really clamped down on unnecessary spending, so I'm not buying a lot of coffees, etc. I recognize that I also come from a place of privilege, but at this point, I can't be as free with my cash as I would like to be. 

[jerseyjay]

To the extent that I can, I try to pay in cash.

I tend to tip taxis (including Ubers, etc), cleaners at hotels, and waiters. These I try to leave in cash and not via the card, even if I pay my bill with a card. I try to tip waiters about 20-25 per cent.

I will tip at a coffee shop if there is some reason to (a complicated order, if it is Thanksgiving, or if I stay there a long time.

For a long time, my barber owned his own shop and I didn't tip. Now he is renting a seat at somebody else's shop, so I tip him.

I wouldn't tip my auto mechanic unless there was something unusual.

It used to be that the Newark airport was a dump, but it had inexpensive fast food. Now it is much nicer, but it costs $20 for a burger and you have to wait forever (because the electronic cashiers can take orders faster than the humans can cook them).

Sometimes students give a present at the end of the semester. Last year one student gave me a bunch of dry erase markers (!). But I would not accept a "tip" from a student. For me tipping is a necessary evil. Necessary because without it many people would be unable to live. Evil because it creates a sense of subservience and comes from feudalism. In a civilized society everybody would be paid decently and tipping would be insulting. But we don't live in a civilized society, so I tip when necessary.

[marshwiggle]

Evil because it creates a sense of subservience and comes from feudalism. In a civilized society everybody would be paid decently and tipping would be insulting.

Since no-one has raised this issue yet, I will.

Part of the argument for tipping is that it fits in places where quality of service can vary, so it promotes top-notch service. (If all wait staff got paid the same, the slackers would get as much as the hard workers without it.) By that logic, tipping could apply to all kinds of things, including professional services.

Regarding the "living wage" argument, it's out of whack in high end establishments. For Valentine's Day, my SO and I were at a nice place for about 1.5 hours. Our server had several tables, which would have all made about the same demands. (For the occasion, there was a prix fixe menu.) Our bill of about $200 Cdn would mean a tip of $30 (at 15%) for just our table. If our server handled 4 or 5 tables in that time (meaning about 20 minutes per table, which is probably about right), that means that 1 1/2 hours would generate $120 in tips alone, or a rate of $80 per hour. That's a pretty darn good "living wage".

(FWIW, I typically tip about 15%.)

[apl68]

Pretty much the only place where I tip is at restaurants where they bring you things and check on you during your meal.  Which I very seldom go to.  Except for that and getting my hair cut, I never go anywhere that tipping is considered common.  And most of my haircutting over the years has been by owner-operators who didn't have any employees.  When I tip in restaurants I try to be generous, and to use cash, since I've heard that gratuities included on credit card payments are often treated as extra profit and don't actually reach the staff that customers think they're rewarding.

The expectation that customers, as opposed to employers, should be expected to pay the wait-staff's wages seems awfully archaic, and not in a good way.  It's not hard to think of all sorts of abuses and inequalities that a system like that can lend itself to, quite apart from being annoying to customers.