Issue with the PhD student

[sambaprof]

I am advising a PhD student who is working with me from Fall 2021.  I am supporting the student's tuition and stipend for his help as TA/RA. This student's writing is horrible and I  had to spend lot of time to provide my review comments for the paper that he submitted.  After my edits, I had to refer him to the writing center and again with the lot of effort from the writing center, I submitted the paper to a journal and it is currently under review. Meanwhile, I had him work to submit a paper for a conference and that got rejected too. He is currently working on fixing the reviewer comments for this second paper.

I had chance to stumble upon a paper in ResearchGate that this particular PhD student co-authored, with his affiliation showing our department,  which was published in November 2022 . I have never heard about this journal ... When I looked at the Wikipedia for this journal, this is what I am seeing...  "the journal has been delisted since the 2019 edition. In the Norwegian Scientific Index, the journal has been listed as "Level 0" since 2008,[4] which means that it is not considered scientific and publications in the journal therefore do not fulfill the necessary criteria in order to count for public research funding. The journal is abstracted and indexed in Embase[6] and in Scopus from 2007 till 2022 when it was delisted due to "publication concerns".

Since he did not say anything about the submission and publication of it,  when I emailed and asked what this paper is about... his reply is " Half of the research work was carried out when I was in final year of bachelor. My brother's friend who is junior managed to publish it in this year due to his board & college requirements. And I am also trying to build my strong research profile for upcoming endeavor & green card requirements. Let me know if you have any guidance or concerns, I will try to integrate that in my work life and our work environment. It is kind of trash journal, but it is a small start for me😅 "

I have a very strong feeling that he is lying that half of the research work was carried out when he was in final year of bachelor, which is 2018. I believe he worked on this in 2022 and is lying about it. This is shocking to me that he did not tell anything about this work and submission and publication  of it in a trash journal with his current Department and University affiliation.

Also when I looked at the Research Gate profile of the first author, he looks like an Assistant Professor in India with only Masters and this PhD student is listed as a Lab Member (with our institution affiliation in this profile) with that first author as Lab Head in the research gate profile for both this PhD student and that first author.

I am sort of new to PhD advising and I have not graduated any PhDs yet, though I am currently advising four PhD students.  Please advise how to handle this situation.

[Puget]

You seem to be taking this very personally-- if the work was not done in your lab, you really have no cause to be upset with the student for not telling you about it-- you don't own the student or their time outside of their work with you.  If your problem is that it was taking away from time they should have been spending on their research with you, keep the focus on that, not being angry that they published something else.  You certainly have no call to be policing what people completely unaffiliated with you (the first author) are putting in their ResearchGate profiles.

Now, I do think you have a responsibility to help educate this student about how to vet quality journals, and how publishing in scam journals can hurt their career and reputation. But keep the focus on their career development, not being aggrieved on your own behalf (for what, exactly?).

[sambaprof]

You certainly have no call to be policing what people completely unaffiliated with you (the first author) are putting in their ResearchGate profiles.

In the PhD student's research gate profile also ... his lab head appears to be the first author and he appears to be a member in that first author's lab... I understand  that I may be overreacting... thats why I need advise from the wiser professors...

[sambaprof]

If your problem is that it was taking away from time they should have been spending on their research with you, keep the focus on that, not being angry that they published something else. 

Yes. This is actually my concern. I would like the PhD student to focus on doing the research with me rather than outside.

[Parasaurolophus]

Why is when he did the work an issue, exactly? I'm afraid I don't get it. it seems to me that the only issue you should be involved in, here, is advising them about journal selection and avoiding garbage.

[Ruralguy]

Sometimes it can take 4 years or more to get a paper out.  The lead guy could have had issues with funding, personal or medical issues, or just other responsibilities that took him or responsible parties away from getting this done. In fact, the fact that it shows in a crud journal tells me that someone just said "get it published already, I don't care where." So, I think I believe the student. If you start seeing more and more of this at later and later dates, then it will be more questionable, of course.

[Liquidambar]

It's standard in academia that a person in one position is working on finishing/publishing stuff they started in their previous position.  I have former undergrad research students who are now in grad school.  I'd be pretty upset if they couldn't find time to quickly redo a couple figures or make edits on a manuscript.

You should focus on whether the student is spending adequate time on your research and producing adequate results.  That doesn't mean insisting the student should spend zero time on finishing other research from before.

[Hibush]

I see citations of my work in articles by a long list of authors at Indian institutions published in zero-impact Indian journals. I assume this is happening in order to check productivity boxes at the institutions where they work. I don't think those citations are meaningful, nor is your student's inclusion on such an author list.

It sounds as if this student could benefit from more fundamental training on the role of scientific publishing in the context of your present school and its peers. That training would include how to write in this venue. It will be a lot of work. That is work you hadn't counted on, but probably inescapable if you want this student to succeed.

[Ruralguy]

One of the most important aspects of graduate school is teaching the norms of the field as well as of academia in general (and also, to an extent, jobs outside of academia).

[jerseyjay]

I am a historian and the norms of science and history are completely different.

That said, it is not immediately clear why you are upset; and if it is not clear to me, I doubt that it will be clear to your students.

Are you upset because

1. He published a dreck article?

2. He published in a dreck journal?

3. He did this using your university as an affiliation?

4. He published without telling you?

5. He is spending time doing other research outside his PhD?

6. The student in general is a disappointment to you?

All of these could be valid reasons, but you need to make clear which one(s) is/are bothering you. You also need to articulate what you want the student to do about all of this.

As others have said, part of being an advisor is socializing your grad students in what the norms of the discipline/academia are. Perhaps this student cannot tell what is a good journal or what is not. Maybe he doesn't understand that a bad publication in a bad journal might be worse than no publication at all. It seems this student is from oversees. Is it possible that academia from his home country has different norms and that a dreck publication might not be so bad? There is quite a bit to parse in the sentence: "It is kind of trash journal, but it is a small start for me😅"

In any case, I think you need to clarify--first to yourself, and then to your student--what is wrong about what he did, and then what you want him to do in the future.

[sambaprof]

I am a historian and the norms of science and history are completely different.

That said, it is not immediately clear why you are upset; and if it is not clear to me, I doubt that it will be clear to your students.

Are you upset because

1. He published a dreck article? Yes

2. He published in a dreck journal? Yes

3. He did this using your university as an affiliation?

4. He published without telling you?

5. He is spending time doing other research outside his PhD?

6. The student in general is a disappointment to you?

All of these could be valid reasons, but you need to make clear which one(s) is/are bothering you. You also need to articulate what you want the student to do about all of this.

As others have said, part of being an advisor is socializing your grad students in what the norms of the discipline/academia are. Perhaps this student cannot tell what is a good journal or what is not. Maybe he doesn't understand that a bad publication in a bad journal might be worse than no publication at all. It seems this student is from oversees. Is it possible that academia from his home country has different norms and that a dreck publication might not be so bad? There is quite a bit to parse in the sentence: "It is kind of trash journal, but it is a small start for me😅"

In any case, I think you need to clarify--first to yourself, and then to your student--what is wrong about what he did, and then what you want him to do in the future.

1. He published a dreck article? Yes

2. He published in a dreck journal? Yes

3. He did this using your university as an affiliation? Yes

4. He published without telling you? Yes

5. He is spending time doing other research outside his PhD? Yes

6. The student in general is a disappointment to you? No as TA /Yes as RA

[research_prof]

I am a historian and the norms of science and history are completely different.

That said, it is not immediately clear why you are upset; and if it is not clear to me, I doubt that it will be clear to your students.

Are you upset because

1. He published a dreck article? Yes

2. He published in a dreck journal? Yes

3. He did this using your university as an affiliation?

4. He published without telling you?

5. He is spending time doing other research outside his PhD?

6. The student in general is a disappointment to you?

All of these could be valid reasons, but you need to make clear which one(s) is/are bothering you. You also need to articulate what you want the student to do about all of this.

As others have said, part of being an advisor is socializing your grad students in what the norms of the discipline/academia are. Perhaps this student cannot tell what is a good journal or what is not. Maybe he doesn't understand that a bad publication in a bad journal might be worse than no publication at all. It seems this student is from oversees. Is it possible that academia from his home country has different norms and that a dreck publication might not be so bad? There is quite a bit to parse in the sentence: "It is kind of trash journal, but it is a small start for me😅"

In any case, I think you need to clarify--first to yourself, and then to your student--what is wrong about what he did, and then what you want him to do in the future.

1. He published a dreck article? Yes

2. He published in a dreck journal? Yes

3. He did this using your university as an affiliation? Yes

4. He published without telling you? Yes

5. He is spending time doing other research outside his PhD? Yes

6. The student in general is a disappointment to you? No as TA /Yes as RA

You can do the following trick: tell the student that you might not be able to support him as an RA after summer unless he publishes a paper at a certain venue (or a set of venues that you like) by summer. See how the student reacts. He might think he can play with you and do research with others at the same time, but when he feels you might pull his funding, he will probably get his shit together.

If the student believes that he is "smarter" than you or he can play with you, feel free to play with him until he realizes that you are the advisor and he is the student.

[jerseyjay]

If these are the reasons you are upset, I think that you need to spell it out and not assume that any of this is obvious. It may, in fact, be obvious for professionals in your field. But your job is to make you student a professional in your field.

Again, from a historian's perspective, none of this is obvious. Nowadays, a graduate student in many humanities fields is supposed to be publishing outside research and the advisor does not have a propriety relationship to them.  If my advisor had told me he is the advisor and I am the student, in the way that research_prof implies, I would have most likely looked for another advisor. To me, the main failing in what you describe is not that the student published stuff outside of his PhD, but that he published bad stuff in a bad journal.

My point is not to argue that you are not right to be offended or that the student was right in what he did. Rather, you need to make clear why you are offended and what you want him to do. Just getting angry ("shocked") is unlikely to accomplish much. Your attitude, to me, seems more similar to somebody who discovers that their spouse is cheating on them than somebody who is disappointed that a professional relationship isn't working out. Spell out what your expectations are (e.g., that the student only work on research in your lab and shows you all research before he publishes it) and what will happen if these are not me (e.g., you will drop him, and his funding). I have no idea whether this is the norm in your field since they are not the norm in my field, but I think your job as an advisor includes spelling out what the norms in your field are.

[Puget]

+1 to everything jerseyjay said.

I'm in a lab science field, and all of this applies in the sciences too, with the exception that we do publish with our students. Nonetheless, it is not at all uncommon for students to also publish papers that your PhD advisor is not involved with-- often these are papers that come from labs the student was in previously (undergrad, masters, or research staff positions)-- if they contributed to research in those previous labs in a way that merits authorship, they should be included as authors, and those papers may be submitted well after they have moved on (the wheels of research often turn slowly as well all know). Students sometimes also work with other faculty (e.g., during a lab rotation) and publish with them. This is all good and to be encouraged, so long as it isn't interfering with their ability to do their dissertation work in a timely manner.

1-2 are legitimate issues to talk with him about, not because they impact you but because they impact the student's career and are things you have a responsibility to educate them about as their advisor.

3. is debatable as an issue-- arguably you should list the affiliation where the work was done, but if he was working on the paper while in the current program both should be listed. Again, not something to get angry about.

4-5 are not problems at all-- again, you don't own the student, and have no call to be telling them they can't publish except with you.

6 is an issue but isn't really related to this paper so far as I can see. Does the student know in what way they need to improve and what your expectations are of them? Do they have an IEP laying out those goals and a roadmap to them? Do you have a plan for helping them get there? If the answer to any of those questions is "no" then that is on you as their mentor. It is also important to remember that your grad students are not you-- people who become faculty are not like the majority of grad students (survivorship bias). You need to calibrate your expectations accordingly.

[sambaprof]

I had a chat with the student in person this morning. He says that he has recently involved in the Facebook group from middle east. He said in this activity, he spends only few hours of research, where he gives little output and the goal is to publish with a large set of authors. He told that since he joined only recently that group he has not published yet through that group yet.