Why so quiet?

[downer]

Well, if each member could post a note on their department web page, or the old-fashioned paper bulletin board if you still have one. Or newsletter, that helps.  Just a brief mention of its existence and subforums.
Often,  those with the most experience, professionally, have less reason to seek or give advice, and the younger ones are uninformed or uninterested to contribute advice or information.

Hmmmm...I am relatively sure that none of my (former) colleagues come here.  And I'm okay with that, especially since I frequently post about my school(s).

Yes, people will be reluctant to advertise TheFora precisely because often they come here to complain about their colleages or admin. No one has said that they have recommened the site to a friend or colleague.

I don't think many posters see the quietness on TheFora as a problem, but the place does seem to be dwindling. I haven't looked at the stats though. Maybe that's a false impression.

[Sun_Worshiper]

A few thoughts:
1. It is a busy time, with the semester in full swing and many of us drowning at work.
2. We are mostly, if not all, academics, and sometimes after a full day of teaching/research/admin stuff, we don't really feel like talking about those things online.
3. It is a small community and so we all more-or-less know where everyone stands. For example, if there is a thread on student debt, we all know where everyone is going to land, so why even bother pursuing it?
4. There are few provocative takes that prompt a lot of argument or posters willing to go to the mat over some discussion topic. Most of us drop our two cents and move on.

[Ruralguy]

Ignoring the trolls, I have actually found that a number of reasonable fora members have contrarian opinions on several topics here and there.
I actually think you'd see varied opinions on student debt, though they might be the same varied opinions we've all heard elsewhere.

We just don't seem to be the "go to location" for certain questions. For instance, we all recall the annual "which is the one true job for me?" type of posts that were frequent between late fall and early spring  on the old fora. Now I think we see a couple of those per year. Of course many of us just aren't on the market. But that could be a major factor in reducing traffic. The members just don't have those kinds of questions a lot, so we're not seeing put those questions and comments to others.

But one thing I can say: It always surprises me how many intelligent people don't know the norms of academia or even really how to deal with other people fairly well.  That is, I think,  maybe more of us, including me, should be asking more questions!

[Parasaurolophus]

I do think we need to find a way to get ourselves onto the first page of Google search results. The question is: how?

Although I've posted links to us in a few places, it's not really the sort of thing one can just post to one's website without potentially outing oneself. Being linked to by one of the higher ed publications would certainly help, and I can inquire with them, although I'm not optimistic that they'll want the association.

[lightning]

Ignoring the trolls, I have actually found that a number of reasonable fora members have contrarian opinions on several topics here and there.
I actually think you'd see varied opinions on student debt, though they might be the same varied opinions we've all heard elsewhere.

We just don't seem to be the "go to location" for certain questions. For instance, we all recall the annual "which is the one true job for me?" type of posts that were frequent between late fall and early spring  on the old fora. Now I think we see a couple of those per year. Of course many of us just aren't on the market. But that could be a major factor in reducing traffic. The members just don't have those kinds of questions a lot, so we're not seeing put those questions and comments to others.

But one thing I can say: It always surprises me how many intelligent people don't know the norms of academia or even really how to deal with other people fairly well.  That is, I think,  maybe more of us, including me, should be asking more questions!

The question posts about careers have floated over to Reddit. I have read them, and I'm just not interested in helping those folks out. The level of discourse is just way too low. Many of them are too clueless to warrant any effort to give advice.

I don't think the newer generations of young academics seek out career advice in forums, and the ones that have the potential to become successful don't turn to reddit either.

The career advice posts that I have read (as a lurker and as an active participant) that helped my career, on the old CHE fora were priceless, because I couldn't get that advice anywhere else. My own advisors, back in the old times, were clueless about the career aspects of their profession and were not the best place to turn to, for career advice. The old CHE fora, articles & interactive comments, filled that gap.

I have a feeling that get-a-job-keep-a-job posts are dwindling because universities are now actually mentoring their grad students and their Assistant Professors. Even some universities are offering professional development/career advancement advice sessions for their NTT faculty. And, people can actually hire career coaches and career consultants, today. There are now many books on how to succeed in academe, and they are written by respectable people. There are YouTube videos on how to succeed in academe (although the YouTube videos are often produced by people, with questionable credentials, they get lively conversations going about the topic). All of the above simply didn't exist as much back then, and places like The Fora had no competition, unlike today.

I think that proper career mentoring is a good thing, but that means less relevance for The Fora. I'm fine with that.

[Ruralguy]

I think your points about better mentoring and better resources such as coaches and books make sense and are consistent with what I see of candidates (other than some searches that have been forced to go with some *very* inexperienced candidates).

[bio-nonymous]

Sadly, fora members like myself could partially be to blame. I have been a member of the old fora since 2009, and now the new one and have not yet contributed more than 200 total posts over the past 14 years. I check the fora quite often and read what others post, but don't often reply. In the past I have felt like not sharing or initiating topics because of a couple of times another poster "jumped on me" for my post (why seek out abusive interactions?). Now it is more that I don't have much to say on the topics others post, and I normally chose not to debate politics and so forth. While I wish the new Fora was as vibrant as the old, it is what it is--and I accept my role in this by not participating to the extent that perhaps I should. Getting disassociated from the Chronicle of Higher ED may also have stifled growth of new membership perhaps, evidenced in that we don't see nearly the amount of "job search" and career questions as we used to from junior folks and trainees.

[Cheerful]

The question posts about careers have floated over to Reddit. I have read them, and I'm just not interested in helping those folks out. The level of discourse is just way too low. Many of them are too clueless to warrant any effort to give advice.

I don't think the newer generations of young academics seek out career advice in forums, and the ones that have the potential to become successful don't turn to reddit either.
...
The career advice posts that I have read (as a lurker and as an active participant) that helped my career, on the old CHE fora were priceless, because I couldn't get that advice anywhere else. My own advisors, back in the old times, were clueless about the career aspects of their profession and were not the best place to turn to, for career advice. The old CHE fora, articles & interactive comments, filled that gap.

r/professors on Reddit is a massive Whine Fest.  I visit periodically and it's always the same. Yes, many r/prof posters have a long ways to go in terms of wisdom and maturity.  Nothing like The Fora or CHE fora.  The layout here is also much more organized and user-friendly.

I learned a great deal from the CHE fora.  Those were the days.  Some humorous story-tellers also posted there.  Now, I have little left to learn about academic career basics -- learned it and lived it.  But I continue to acquire new nuggets of info and insights here which I appreciate, thanks.

Kind of unfortunate when someone swoops in to ask urgent questions, regulars here help out, and then OP never returns to share and contribute again.

[Bbmaj7b5]

You might also look at the reduced participation as a sign that many in need of urgent help have gone on a career path that has taken them out of problematic situations.

I started participating in the old CHE forum when I was two years into my academic career as a 40-something assistant prof. It was an essential part of my network of advice, even though the number of fellow engineers appeared to be relatively small, and the subset of that who were at R1s appeared to be a much smaller percentage of that already small number. I would go to the CHE forum for general advice about academia. Once my need for that kind of advice started to tail off, I participated less and less. On occasion, I had weighed in with my own advice to particular problems, but I don't think I was that helpful, so I would mostly hang out in the Cafe section, participate in the limericks or haikus and tell everyone what kind of lowbrow rock music I was listening to at the time.

[downer]

What about giving back to others, passing it on for good karma?

[research_prof]

Honestly, I feel that our younger faculty, although extremely talented, can take or leave the job, in the psychological sense at least, more readily than me and especially my senior colleagues who have been retiring over the last few years. They seem less agitated by real problems, but I think they are more trained to not let it get to them any more than any other job. Better therapy maybe.

If you meant to really say that new faculty have much less tolerance to accept sh@t given to them by their employer, I absolutely agree with that and I see it as a good thing. My employer asks me to go teach even if the weather outside is almost deadly--why would I care that much about my employer in this case? I would do what's best for me. And yes, if that means I need to take or leave the job, then so be it. I will leave the job and find something else to do in my life.

[dismalist]

Honestly, I feel that our younger faculty, although extremely talented, can take or leave the job, in the psychological sense at least, more readily than me and especially my senior colleagues who have been retiring over the last few years. They seem less agitated by real problems, but I think they are more trained to not let it get to them any more than any other job. Better therapy maybe.

If you meant to really say that new faculty have much less tolerance to accept sh@t given to them by their employer, I absolutely agree with that and I see it as a good thing. My employer asks me to go teach even if the weather outside is almost deadly--why would I care that much about my employer in this case? I would do what's best for me. And yes, if that means I need to take or leave the job, then so be it. I will leave the job and find something else to do in my life.

This is all just perfectly rational -- merely means self-interested -- behavior: When young one can create, accumulate and monetize knowledge in many subfields, so they won't lose much by being disloyal. They may even gain. Old farts have accumulated some knowledge and don't have much time to expand it. So, grin and bear it.

[Ruralguy]

Wow, the last couple of posts are rather cynical, though I suppose not inaccurate!

What I mean tis that I think younger faculty don't let it "get to them" at all, one way or another. They seem to be able to take it or leave it. They are quite professional and very good. Some go, some stay.  Some put a lot into their job, but even if they do, they aren't overly attached, I'd say. I suppose you can put that in terms of "loyalty."

But I wouldn't say that I am particularly loyal either. Its more accurate to say that I am more involved at an institutional level because by the time you are a full prof, you can change things you want to change (though, I have found out that I have surprisingly little power in some areas, and probably way too much in others). Also, my interests are somewhat aligned with the institution because one of the primary ways I can get more money or more recognition (assuming that scholarship and teaching don't go down the rain) is via service. I'm not saying that I get paid by the committee or anything. I just mean that over time, if Dean sees I am involved, more likely to pick me over someone else (given same scholarship and teaching) for a salary boost. You can certainly try for that via scholarship production too, its just harder for me to do that now at my age.

[RatGuy]

I've visited and posted less frequently for reasons that have nothing to do with the job stuff -- indeed, its a seismic shift in my personal life that has me changing my habits and reevaluating the stuff I do during the day.

I'll also add that we haven't had a good story thread in a while. Fake Jake and some of the plagiarism chronicles made for ripping reads. I miss reading about those types of gonzo experiences.

[Aster]

I would be here much more often if this discussion board was still operated by the Chronicle of Higher Education.

And I would visit the Chronicle of Higher Education much more if it still contained an online discussion board.

The Chronicle of Higher Education really shot themselves in the foot.