Job expectations for faculty living far, far away

[Mobius]

We have faculty that are online. They tend to shirk service work, and there is resentment building along those who are then asked to pick up the slack. Even things like, "Oh, you live close to campus so you can attend this..." are pushing the remaining on-campus faculty to pull back.

[clean]

Let us not forget that the university has a financial interest in students being face to face. 

Here, campus housing was outsourced to a private firm. However, the buildings that were built were backed by university bonds (and interest wont be missed!)
Similarly, we have food service deals and if students are not there to eat, the food service folk certainly wont pay whatever they committed to pay.
Let us not forget parking!  That new parking garage is paid for from the parking fees paid by students and visitors (and faculty of course.... they make us come to work, and force us to pay once we get there!).   No students parking (no faculty parking) and there are no fees to pay the debt.  The university, not the parking structure, are on the hook. 

Paying less for those 100% online is not such a far fetched solution, but the reality is that ALL faculty will earn less as there will be less money available for raises (to anyone) in the face of those fixed costs that lose their revenue streams! 

Be careful what you hope for!  The reality is that we NEED students to be on campus as much as those (much like those fish  that depend on other fish to clean their teeth, and dung beetles need wildebeest)

[Hegemony]

They need some students to be on campus. But enrolling online students means potentially more students: students with daytime jobs; students with small children and trouble affording daycare; students who live far away. And online classes can have large numbers without having to find a room large enough to accommodate them, a factor that has limited the number of large classes we can offer in person. Students like having an online option. I think a university probably benefits from offering both.

[fizzycist]

I was trying to decide where I fall on the spectrum here and then it occured to me: I would never vote to hire a faculty member who wanted to spend an appreciable fraction of their time working remotely.

Up until recently we had a lot of faculty who hadn't come back to full time in person since the pandemic. The department was not as collaborative, close-knit, or intellectually stimulating. That is changing now, but if ppl weren't coming back voluntarily I would be in favor of first incentivizing and then coercing.

[ciao_yall]

They need some students to be on campus. But enrolling online students means potentially more students: students with daytime jobs; students with small children and trouble affording daycare; students who live far away. And online classes can have large numbers without having to find a room large enough to accommodate them, a factor that has limited the number of large classes we can offer in person. Students like having an online option. I think a university probably benefits from offering both.

Theoretically. But I don't think it's working out that way.

My spidey sense is that students are first choosing online, and if when it doesn't work out (drop rates are high) they decide to opt out completely. Jobs, children, and commutes will still affect study time. Anyone remember that ad for the online college with the people studying while breastfeeding, riding on the subway, etc..?

At least when they are at a point that they figure out the details around their lives to get to class, they are ready to make it work overall.

But the online/oops option sucks in too many students up front and they never get around to the complicated part.

So, is it cannabalizing students?

[Mobius]

That's a big problem keeping the traditional students in F2F while trying to serve non-traditional students. We have many on-campus students taking a lot of online classes, but we also require students to live on campus (and buying a meal plan) for their first two years. On-campus residency is a common requirement.

Retention rates for online students tends to be poor, anyway, no matter what demographic you're in.

[ciao_yall]

That's a big problem keeping the traditional students in F2F while trying to serve non-traditional students. We have many on-campus students taking a lot of online classes, but we also require students to live on campus (and buying a meal plan) for their first two years. On-campus residency is a common requirement.

Retention rates for online students tends to be poor, anyway, no matter what demographic you're in.

The point of on-campus residency is to get students to engage with each other. One would hope they are leaving their rooms to have study groups, maybe do their online classes from a computer lab...

My doctoral program was talking about doing online classes a few years ago and we protested. We chose this program because we wanted to meet in person and meet new people. Not sure how the pandemic changed things but I know I stopped taking my language classes because they were all online and the last thing in the world I wanted to do was sit at the computer for another few hours.

[apl68]

They need some students to be on campus. But enrolling online students means potentially more students: students with daytime jobs; students with small children and trouble affording daycare; students who live far away. And online classes can have large numbers without having to find a room large enough to accommodate them, a factor that has limited the number of large classes we can offer in person. Students like having an online option. I think a university probably benefits from offering both.

Theoretically. But I don't think it's working out that way.

My spidey sense is that students are first choosing online, and if when it doesn't work out (drop rates are high) they decide to opt out completely. Jobs, children, and commutes will still affect study time. Anyone remember that ad for the online college with the people studying while breastfeeding, riding on the subway, etc..?

At least when they are at a point that they figure out the details around their lives to get to class, they are ready to make it work overall.

But the online/oops option sucks in too many students up front and they never get around to the complicated part.

So, is it cannabalizing students?

Having gotten an accredited, genuine, all-online professional degree, I can see the uses of online education.  Done right, with reasonable course design and software, with motivated and mature students who have the technology resources that they need at their disposal, it can work fine for students who have reasons for not seeking the traditional residential or commuter campus experience.  But there are so very many ways for institutions, instructors, and students to do it wrong!  And obviously there have been a lot of bad excuses for online education out there that have mostly just wasted everybody's time and money, and have benefited only the bottom lines of unscrupulous schools. 

So I guess I'd have to say that I'm still somewhat skeptical of online education.  I don't believe it will work for most students.  A very high proportion of students who try it aren't going to make it.  Some of them would probably do okay if they had face-to-face support.  And with it being so very easy to cheat one's way through many online courses now, I think online education's reputation, and the reputations of schools that rely heavily upon it, are going to suffer.  That's one reason why I'm glad the deal between the University of Arkansas and Phoenix seems to be off. 

[onehappyunicorn]

We have part-time faculty teaching online courses who live out of state. If you are teaching full-time for us there is a residency requirement, you must live in-state. Full-time faculty also cannot teach more than 50% of their load online.

I think online only might get there eventually but right now I'm a bit suspicious, especially in my field of the visual arts. One of our sister institutions does an online only graphic design degree that attracts students from all over the nation. They post student graduate portfolios online and honestly most of the work is really terrible. Not all of our student work is great but we at least make sure there aren't spelling errors, for example.

Even when instructors put together a really good course that is just a rigorous as an in-person I have seen institutions struggle with everything else that comes with online students. My wife is finishing up a degree online and she still has to meet with an advisor before they will lift the flag so she can register for classes. The issue is the advisor is booked for several weeks because in-person students take priority, even though my wife is close to finishing. The advisor is also clearly is trained to work with traditional students, not so much anyone else. It is very frustrating for an adult with several decades of professional experience to be treated like a naive young person. 

[Mobius]

I suspect many don't leave their rooms and play video games, watch porn, or screw around on social media.

That's a big problem keeping the traditional students in F2F while trying to serve non-traditional students. We have many on-campus students taking a lot of online classes, but we also require students to live on campus (and buying a meal plan) for their first two years. On-campus residency is a common requirement.

Retention rates for online students tends to be poor, anyway, no matter what demographic you're in.

The point of on-campus residency is to get students to engage with each other. One would hope they are leaving their rooms to have study groups, maybe do their online classes from a computer lab...

My doctoral program was talking about doing online classes a few years ago and we protested. We chose this program because we wanted to meet in person and meet new people. Not sure how the pandemic changed things but I know I stopped taking my language classes because they were all online and the last thing in the world I wanted to do was sit at the computer for another few hours.

[Caracal]

I suspect many don't leave their rooms and play video games, watch porn, or screw around on social media.

That's a big problem keeping the traditional students in F2F while trying to serve non-traditional students. We have many on-campus students taking a lot of online classes, but we also require students to live on campus (and buying a meal plan) for their first two years. On-campus residency is a common requirement.

Retention rates for online students tends to be poor, anyway, no matter what demographic you're in.

The point of on-campus residency is to get students to engage with each other. One would hope they are leaving their rooms to have study groups, maybe do their online classes from a computer lab...

My doctoral program was talking about doing online classes a few years ago and we protested. We chose this program because we wanted to meet in person and meet new people. Not sure how the pandemic changed things but I know I stopped taking my language classes because they were all online and the last thing in the world I wanted to do was sit at the computer for another few hours.

The thing I heard from a lot of my students when we returned was that they found it difficult to organize themselves without in person classes. It isn't just that students are lazy, for some people it's really hard to separate out your day and get anything done when you are in the same place the whole time. I would have really struggled with it as a student. I used my class schedule as a structure to organize everything else around. Honestly, I struggle with this now on my non teaching days when I've just got 6 hours and a bunch of stuff I should get done.

The lack of social interaction is also hard. When I talk to friends outside of academia who continue to work remotely, they don't really feel particularly isolated. A lot of their day is spent interacting with people because that's required for the job. People in online classes are likely to feel really disconnected from their professors and other students.

[apl68]

The thing I heard from a lot of my students when we returned was that they found it difficult to organize themselves without in person classes. It isn't just that students are lazy, for some people it's really hard to separate out your day and get anything done when you are in the same place the whole time. I would have really struggled with it as a student. I used my class schedule as a structure to organize everything else around. Honestly, I struggle with this now on my non teaching days when I've just got 6 hours and a bunch of stuff I should get done.

The lack of social interaction is also hard. When I talk to friends outside of academia who continue to work remotely, they don't really feel particularly isolated. A lot of their day is spent interacting with people because that's required for the job. People in online classes are likely to feel really disconnected from their professors and other students.

That's what I've observed in online classes.  Factors such as those you mention above make online classes much more challenging than face-to-face classes with similar levels of content and rigor.  I really don't believe that most traditional-age students have the necessary maturity or motivation to do very well in them.  Nor do I believe that busy, stressed-out adult learners who already have all they can do to juggle work and family responsibilities have much of a chance to succeed at online, absent strong educational fundamentals, strong support systems, and major motivation. 

And yet online is so often sold as an "easy" alternative to traditional college education.  Which means that either the courses have been badly dumbed-down, or that a great many students are being set up to fail.  Or both.  I can't help suspecting that online education debacles are a significant factor in the widespread loss of faith in the value of higher education in some quarters.

[Hegemony]

I teach about half my load online, and I haven't seen the problems you all are mentioning. It probably helps that the students in my online classes are not 100% online. In regular semesters, they're taking most of their courses in person, and one online. In the summers, they're all online but they typically take only one class at a time.

I do make my online classes very interactive, even though they're asynchronous. And I make sure I engage with each student individually. For instance, I join in enthusiastically on the Discussion Boards, instead of just having the boards be a place to post mini-essay monologues. So they become real conversations amongst us all. And when I grade the Discussion Board posts, I write each of the students a note about their posts (yes, every week). The students say that this level of engagement is often not typical of their online courses, and they appreciate it. I taught all online last semester, and am teaching all in-person this semester.  The online classes were actually more responsive; I'm having terrible problems getting the students to stay with the program this semester. In my most fun class, only 60% of the students showed up yesterday. I think maybe part of the problem is that when they're burnt out or having rest-of-life problems, it's easier to find time to show up for an asynchronous class than at a specific day and time for an in-person class.

[AvidReader]

I applied for a job at a rural branch of a State R1 a few years ago. The branch was about an hour drive from the main campus. It was absolutely, 100% expected--and reiterated in all the interviews--that the recipient was expected to live in Rural Town and be an ambassador for the college in the local community. I appreciated that this was straightforward (and would have loved that job).

AR.

[darkstarrynight]

I teach about half my load online, and I haven't seen the problems you all are mentioning. It probably helps that the students in my online classes are not 100% online. In regular semesters, they're taking most of their courses in person, and one online. In the summers, they're all online but they typically take only one class at a time.

I do make my online classes very interactive, even though they're asynchronous. And I make sure I engage with each student individually. For instance, I join in enthusiastically on the Discussion Boards, instead of just having the boards be a place to post mini-essay monologues. So they become real conversations amongst us all. And when I grade the Discussion Board posts, I write each of the students a note about their posts (yes, every week). The students say that this level of engagement is often not typical of their online courses, and they appreciate it. I taught all online last semester, and am teaching all in-person this semester.  The online classes were actually more responsive; I'm having terrible problems getting the students to stay with the program this semester. In my most fun class, only 60% of the students showed up yesterday. I think maybe part of the problem is that when they're burnt out or having rest-of-life problems, it's easier to find time to show up for an asynchronous class than at a specific day and time for an in-person class.

I love this! I also engage on discussion boards in my asynchronous online classes, and always give detailed feedback in grading comments for discussion posts. My students seem very appreciative of high interaction and personalized feedback, and they know I read their work. It definitely makes the online classes fun, and I have students enrolled from all over the world.