How Do People Decide to Have Kids?

[Caracal]

I did not want kids and didn't have them. I've always been pleased with the decision.

There are definitely all sorts of reasons people have for having kids or not having them, both reasonable and unreasonable.

While having kids is still the most common decision, it's increasingly no longer a default assumption. Some governments are trying to provide incentives for people to have kids. But 8 bilion people on the planet seems plenty.

I think it works better if we acknowledge that the reasons are intensely personal and most of the "big picture" arguments are probably rationalizations created later to justify the decision. I really doubt that anyone who really wants to have a kid decides they won't because of global warming. If we start making these choices into universal moral decisions, you can end up following that path into an idea that we should either stigmatize and penalize the childless, or that child rearing is an anti social decision that we shouldn't support as a society so no need for parent leave or any of the rest of it.

[MarathonRunner]

So I never liked babysitting. I liked being a Girl Guide leader and camp counsellor but otherwise didn't really like children. Spouse was indifferent. I ended up infertile due to endometriosis, do it seemed meant to be that we not have children. Happily married and a cat mom to three cats, and aunt to two nephews and one niece.

[MarathonRunner]

I did not want kids and didn't have them. I've always been pleased with the decision.

There are definitely all sorts of reasons people have for having kids or not having them, both reasonable and unreasonable.

While having kids is still the most common decision, it's increasingly no longer a default assumption. Some governments are trying to provide incentives for people to have kids. But 8 bilion people on the planet seems plenty.

I don't have children. I'm often asked "who will look after you when you are old?"  A.if that's the reason you are having children, that's incredibly selfish, and I feel for your children. B. Working with older adults, plenty of people have children who couldn't give a flying f about them, so they are the equivalent of childless, or worse.

[downer]

I did not want kids and didn't have them. I've always been pleased with the decision.

There are definitely all sorts of reasons people have for having kids or not having them, both reasonable and unreasonable.

While having kids is still the most common decision, it's increasingly no longer a default assumption. Some governments are trying to provide incentives for people to have kids. But 8 bilion people on the planet seems plenty.

I think it works better if we acknowledge that the reasons are intensely personal and most of the "big picture" arguments are probably rationalizations created later to justify the decision. I really doubt that anyone who really wants to have a kid decides they won't because of global warming. If we start making these choices into universal moral decisions, you can end up following that path into an idea that we should either stigmatize and penalize the childless, or that child rearing is an anti social decision that we shouldn't support as a society so no need for parent leave or any of the rest of it.

The evidence is that you are wrong about how people make decisions.

There have been lots of news reports of people directly citing climate change as a reason for not having kids. E.g.,
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/climate-change-is-making-people-think-twice-about-having-children.html
and
https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/climate-change-fertility-modern-fertility-survey/

There are also lots of stories about parents being intensely worried about their kids' future due to climate change.

As you will have already heard, the personal is political. And the political is personal.

How widespread is this way of thinking? Hard to say, but marriage and religion are on the decline in most of the west. These are largely the institutions that promote having children.

The other issue you raise is whether we should embrace this way of thinking, and you highlight some of the dangers of politicizing personal decisions. I agree it is tricky. The US especially has a problematic history of controlling women's reproduction. But I tend to think these issues are inherently political, so the issue is really how we politicize them rather than whether we do so.

[dismalist]

People say all kinds of things to defend or explain their motives. What people say may be totally different from what motivates them. "I won't have kids because of global warming" or on account "There's too many people already" sounds much more acceptable in many circles than "I won't have kids because I'd rather spend the money on material possessions for myself." Whatever.

If one were to take the negative externality argument seriously, that additional human beings pollute the planet, that would likely be wrong. Improvements in levels of living are  caused by the implementation of new ideas. People create ideas. The more new people, the more new ideas. We can call this anti-Malthus.

No one should feel bad about deciding for oneself whether one wants kids. No need to kid oneself -- in either direction.

[ciao_yall]

Mr Y'all and I did not have kids. We just forgot. Kept hitting snooze on the biological alarm clock.

No regrets.

[mythbuster]

I do not have children because- like Marathonrunner, I have never had an interest in being a Mother.  I actively dislike babies (do NOT hand them to me!)- and small children are fine, but I do like my peace and quiet. And looking at being a mother what I see primarily is a ton of work, body distortion ( my family has a bad history with long term childbirth complications) and societal imposed sacrifice. If I want to cuddle with something it will be my cat or dog.
    In discussing it with Mr. Buster years ago it became clear that I would not be happy giving up parts of my current life for the sake of a child. While he was interested in having those "memories" like his Dad did of playing ball in the yard etc, he readily admitted that his Dad was NOT the primary parent in the house given that he was the sole breadwinner- he was gone on business trips a lot.
    So my advice is to start by listening to your gut. Is this something that you are actively interested in or do you only think abut it because of family/societal etc. obligation? Then have a conversation with Mr. Rat as to those feelings. Yes that can change over time, but start with that open conversation and see where it goes.

[arcturus]

I will add another "no kids" voice to this thread. In my case, I knew/know that I do not want children. I never enjoyed/wanted to babysit. I don't mind interacting with children of a particular age range (old enough to communicate, young enough to still want to interact with adults...), but a parent is responsible at all age ranges, regardless. I also am aware of my own personality traits that are not conducive to effective parenting. Nonetheless, I do strongly believe that each person/couple should be able to make their own decisions about the timing and number of children they bring into the world. So, please keep in mind that my choices are mine, not yours.

[pgher]

I never had any interest in kids, until one day I did. I would say that there is always a reason not to have kids. At some point, though, you get a feeling that overcomes rationality. As dismalist says, lots of reasons given for and against having kids are actually post hoc rationalizations. We have evolved to desire procreation, so there is a part of our biology that pushes us that direction when the circumstances are right.

[Caracal]

People say all kinds of things to defend or explain their motives. What people say may be totally different from what motivates them. "I won't have kids because of global warming" or on account "There's too many people already" sounds much more acceptable in many circles than "I won't have kids because I'd rather spend the money on material possessions for myself." Whatever.

If one were to take the negative externality argument seriously, that additional human beings pollute the planet, that would likely be wrong. Improvements in levels of living are  caused by the implementation of new ideas. People create ideas. The more new people, the more new ideas. We can call this anti-Malthus.

No one should feel bad about deciding for oneself whether one wants kids. No need to kid oneself -- in either direction.

Exactly, I believe people say that kind of thing, I just don't really believe them.

I also have to admit that I think there's something egotistical about the argument. When you bring a kid into the world, you have no way of knowing what challenges or difficulties they will face, from the global to the personal. To claim that you can make a judgement on that balancing their difficulties against the joy they may experience or bring to others is just hubris. People can't know what an imaginary kid's life might be like, or how global warming might effect it. That's not how this works.

[Stockmann]

There are good and bad reasons to want children, definitely - bad ones are such as wanting them to follow a highly prescribed life path they had no say in planning, or as your retirement plan. The "big," ethical reasons like climate change I don't really buy - a lot of people are unwilling to make much smaller lifestyle choices than childfree/parent based on that, so I'm very skeptical these are the real reasons. Having said that, if you don't truly want children (as distinct from wanting a retirement plan, avoiding getting badmouthed by the local busybodies or whatever) you shouldn't have them - raising the next generation is much too important to be left to those who don't actually want to do it.
Me and my wife are one & done, meaning there are plenty of people on either camp who disapprove of our choices. My wife pretty much always wanted at least one child, I changed my mind multiple times over time (I think that was mainly due to changes in partners or lack thereof), but our kid was very much wanted and planned.
As to when is the right time, that's always a gamble - wait too long and it's not just fertility issues or genetic risks that are a concern, it's also the reality of being older and coping with being sleep-deprived, chasing after a toddler, etc. On the other hand, there are all the issues about income, stability, etc, particularly at a time when the cost of housing has gone through the roof in most of the world.
I think dealing with the title issue will actually be among the top societal concerns of the coming decades, at least at a par with climate change and its consequences, as it's clearly not just a developed country issue (Russia and China already have declining populations, Mexico's fertility rate has fallen below replacement and India's is not far behind). Developed countries I think can always manage the issue with a combo of immigration, raising the retirement age, and automation, but developing countries are going to face a combo of ageing population and much of their young, healthy, skilled labor leaving for greener pastures. A "Children of Men"style collapse I think is possible, even likely, for countries like Russia (ageing and shrinking without even becoming rich) and South Korea (rich but with the lowest fertility rate on the planet).

[smallcleanrat]

I think the question to be asked is "Does keeping my head above water occupy all my time and energy, or do I have some reserves? Am I on top of the things that trouble me, by and large, so that I can put them in the background when someone else's needs are urgent?  Do I have a good sense of what my parents did right, which I can replicate, and what they did wrong, and how I could do better?" And "What does my support system look like?"

I think these are key questions that I'm struggling with. I think SO is so much less scared of this decision than I am because he currently has more energy reserves than I do. He talks about feeling something missing in his life, that he needs more than work and cats and me. I feel like work and cats and him keep my hands pretty full already; I'm scared I won't be able to handle much more. We've talked about me being a stay-at-home parent so I can focus fully on childcare, but I don't know how sustainable that would be.

The good news is that kids develop on their own and you don't really have to do anything to make it happen, other than provide for those material needs and love them. It's amazing, they start off as these helpless blobs who can't support their own heads, and, if you're like me, you worry endlessly about their milestones, and whether they should be doing something they aren't, and then one day they start crawling around, or decide to figure out how to walk, or start saying words and eventually constructing complex sentences. As long as you don't lock the kid in the basement, they just figure all this stuff out on their own. If you're a neurotic person, like me, it's therapeutic to realize that your worries and anxieties are totally irrelevant.

And, surround them with other adults and people so they learn from those around them, not just you.

Caracal, thanks. It helps to read this message from someone who's been there. My doctor (who has raised two sons to adulthood) said something similar: "It's mostly genetic programming. They'll become who they are regardless of what you do."

ciao_yall, good point.

While my wife and I always wanted children, we disagreed on when it was a good time. I'm consistently underpaid, and her employment was spotty and erratic (partially due to her chronic health problems). When she'd lament that we didn't have children, I'd say that we'd start when we were financially stable. This year I came home from work one day and found she'd moved out and taken everything with her -- and moved three states away. Her reason? "You'll never want to have kids with me." If I'd known that "not right now" meant that she'd move out, well, I might've done things differently.

All that to say: make sure that you're communicating effectively about desires and aspirations and expectations. And consider that you might think you're expressing your ideas effectively, and it might be hard to draw a line in the sand, but the other party may not be hearing what you're saying. In situations such as the discussion to have children, it's important that everyone understands everyone else's stance.

I'm very sorry that happened to you. I may be in a somewhat similar position. SO has made it clear that not having kids is a dealbreaker. I'm not saying never, but I am saying "not right now." I have some chronic health issues, and he's stuck with me for years waiting for me to get better. I am better than I used to be, but I want more time to get stronger. But he says he's at a point where he can't wait much longer.

For what it's worth, I was ambivalent about it. I would have been happy either way, and didn't have a strong preference. The same was true of my partner, until it wasn't; and once that changed, I was happy to go down the child route. And every day since has been an utter delight.

I do find it reassuring that things can work out, even if you start out ambivalent.

    So my advice is to start by listening to your gut. Is this something that you are actively interested in or do you only think abut it because of family/societal etc. obligation? Then have a conversation with Mr. Rat as to those feelings. Yes that can change over time, but start with that open conversation and see where it goes.

Honestly, I'm a little uncomfortable around kids, but mostly due to not having much experience interacting with them. I worry about saying or doing the wrong thing. SO isn't experienced with kids either, so I told him I want to take parenting classes so we're not going into this completely naive.

I do want a kid, but so far I've felt nothing remotely like a primal yearning to procreate (something SO says he feels strongly). I'm not sure if that lack is a red flag or not. I feel utterly indifferent as to whether a kid shares my genes and is of my body, but I do want to love and care for a kid. However, I only want to be a parent if I can be a good one. What I want is secondary to what the kid needs. I don't want a kid to suffer because I rushed into something I wasn't prepared to do well.

[downer]

I agree that what people say about their motives and their real motives may not match up. Whether that is especially true about having children I don't know. People are rarely very consistent in their moral convictions and not thorough in applying those convictions to their behavior. But there's a lot of wiggle room for explaining away apparent inconsistencies.

There's also the question of whether people are honest about being glad they had kids. It's socially unacceptable to say that you regret having children, so it's very likely people are sometimes not honest, either to themselves or others, about their regrets. And of course people also rationalize their actions because we all want to seem rational to ourselves.

To what extent is the desire to have kids the result of "biological urges" (which are probably more about having sex than having kids), versus social and family pressure, moral reasoning, or a search for personal fulfillment, is all pretty hard to tell. For the countries with the lowest birthrates -- Hong Kong, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Portugal, Italy -- all sorts of factors are in play. And now we are running a social experiment in the US: will banning abortion in some states mean that the birthrate goes up there? There's the curious fact that abortion rates often go down when abortion is legalized in some countries, and countries that are permissive about abortion have lower abortion rates.

[the_geneticist]

I'm someone else who is child-free by choice, but it was a journey to get here.
Growing up, I never liked babies or small children (noisy! messy!), but I was told that I would "eventually" want them.  Everyone in my family had kids, same with the neighbors, and the friends of the family.  I didn't even know that you could *choose* to not be a parent.  But I also did not understand the appeal of babies - if there was a party with a baby and a cat, I was the one holding the cat.

My now-ex tried to demand that I "give him a family", but saw his role as just bringing home a paycheck and being the "fun dad" on weekends.  Even though my graduate school job had longer hours, he expected me to be the one responsible for the bulk of the chores (cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, paying bills) when it was just the two of us and a cat.  Told me that if I wanted our place to be cleaner, then I should clean more.  And that having a child "wouldn't change anything about that".  Nope to that.  Got divorced. 

Took a few years to consider my goals in life and realized that I did not want to be a parent.

It is HARD to be a parent.  Until they are old enough to be in school, childcare is expensive.  Kids get sick a lot and you will get sick a lot.  Your household expenses will skyrocket, even if you don't pay for childcare or cleaning services.  You and your partner will have much less time for "just the two of you", especially in the first year with an infant.  The volume of laundry created by one tiny baby is staggeringly high.  No, it's not from washing the cute little onesies (even though several outfit changes a day are totally expected). 
Bottom line: you need to be a strong team who support each other as parents.  If you are having any relationship problems, even about "trivial" things like an unfair split of who does the laundry, a child will not make it easier.

I like quiet mornings to myself to drink tea, read a bit while eating breakfast, and playing with our cats.  I have a loving husband, fun hobbies, friends, and can travel.  I'm happy with my choice.

That being said, I absolutely LOVE my nephew and my friends' children.  Turn out, I DO like babies and small children.  I just don't want to live with them!

[fleabite]

I feel utterly indifferent as to whether a kid shares my genes and is of my body, but I do want to love and care for a kid. However, I only want to be a parent if I can be a good one. What I want is secondary to what the kid needs. I don't want a kid to suffer because I rushed into something I wasn't prepared to do well.

There are no perfect mothers or fathers. What matters is that you try. You want to love and care for a child, and you are willing to put their needs first. That sounds like a recipe for successful parenthood to me. Trust yourself.