NYT Opinion: I Teach the Humanities, and I Still Don’t Know What Their Value Is

[Wahoo Redux]

This is dated Dec. 2, 2023 in my inbox, so I am not sure when it was published----today or December 2?

Anyway...

New York Times Opinion: I Teach the Humanities, and I Still Don't Know What Their Value Is

We humanists keep on trying to teach people what the value of the humanities is, and people keep failing to learn our lessons. This suggests to me that humanists do not know the value of the thing they are trying to defend. We can spout pieties that sound inspiring to those already convinced of our cause, but so too can an ignorant math teacher "teach" math to those who already know it.

[marshwiggle]

A great quote:

A defensive mind-set also encourages politicization. If the study of literature or philosophy helps to fight sexism and racism or to promote democracy and free speech — and everyone agrees that sexism and racism are bad and democracy and free speech are good — then you have your answer as to why we shouldn't cut funding for the study of literature or philosophy. Politicization is a way of arming the humanities for its political battles, but it comes at an intellectual cost. Why are sexism and racism so bad? Why is democracy so good? Politicization silences these and other questions, whereas the function of the humanities is to raise them.

[waterboy]

Waiting for Wahoo to jump in and tell Marshy why they're wrong...

[marshwiggle]

Waiting for Wahoo to jump in and tell Marshy why they're wrong...

Me too :)

[Langue_doc]

Waiting for Wahoo to jump in and tell Marshy why they're wrong...

Me too :)

Me three!

[Wahoo Redux]

???

I don't see that Marshy posted anything I disagree with. 

[Parasaurolophus]

I don't see that it's politicization that silences them. Those are topics that are always political--they are, after all, topics in social and political philosophy. Philosophers are quite happy to wade into deeply divisive political issues and do what we can to shed some light and teach people how to approach the issues. (As evidence, consider that pretty much every applied ethics course in the US covers abortion, and has done so for decades.)

It's the shuttering of departments that does the silencing, or the passing of laws making it illegal to teach the stuff.

[marshwiggle]

???

I don't see that Marshy posted anything I disagree with. 

Based on our recent discussions, I'd guess how to raise a question like "What is hate?", rather than providing a definitive answer, would be something we'd probably disagree on.

[Wahoo Redux]

???

I don't see that Marshy posted anything I disagree with. 

Based on our recent discussions, I'd guess how to raise a question like "What is hate?", rather than providing a definitive answer, would be something we'd probably disagree on.

Here you go folks.  Popcorn time.  But hey, at least the Old Narnian engages in things!

hate

verb

feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone).
"the boys hate each other"

Similar:
loathe
detest
dislike greatly
abhor
abominate
despise
execrate
feel aversion toward
feel revulsion toward
feel hostile toward
be repelled by
be revolted by
regard with disgust
not be able to bear/stand
be unable to stomach
find intolerable
shudder at
recoil from
shrink from
hate someone's guts
disrelish
Opposite:
love
like

noun
intense or passionate dislike.
"feelings of hate and revenge"

Similar:
loathing
hatred
detestation
dislike
distaste
abhorrence
abomination
execration
resentment
aversion
hostility
ill will
ill feeling

I don't think you hate the humanities, Marshy, although in the past you have displayed a rather passionate desire to point out where humanities faculty fail in some regard. 

This article is about having an "open mind."  Your own excerpt says this.  Even more importantly----

A defensive mind-set also encourages politicization.

What we might consider is how open one's mind is to examining one's self and the "intense or passionate dislike" for a thing or idea.  If there is no good, prudent, provable reason for intense or passionate dislike, it is probably mindless hate----or something one has been taught to hate.

Critical thinking: Humanities 101.

[marshwiggle]

This article is about having an "open mind."  Your own excerpt says this.  Even more importantly----

A defensive mind-set also encourages politicization.

What we might consider is how open one's mind is to examining one's self and the "intense or passionate dislike" for a thing or idea.  If there is no good, prudent, provable reason for intense or passionate dislike, it is probably mindless hate----or something one has been taught to hate.

Critical thinking: Humanities 101.

So for all of the humanities people out there, is Wahoo correct that I fail Critical Thinking 101?

[dismalist]

HATE SONG, from THE MAD SHOW

There are certain facts of life that can upset you
Of course I never let them cross my path
We made our mothers take us out of Psycho
When Janet Leigh was bleeding in the bath

Altho I've never watched "The Man from UNCLE."
I know I wouldn't like it if I did
I saw a scene or two from "Mary Poppins"
I think it's too sadistic for a kid.

Hate, bloodshed, ev'rywhere you turn
When will our parents learn
It isn't what we yearn for
Love, kindness, peace in ev'ry land.
It's these for which we stand
So hand in hand in hand

We're gonna stamp out hate
That's our creed
Wipe out violence, intolerance and greed
We're gonna start right now
Tomorrow is too late
We're gonna stamp out hate.

We're gonna stamp out hate
Stamp it in the ground
Then take happiness and spread it all around
We'll put an end to grief
We can hardly wait
We're gonna stamp out hate.

We're gonna stamp out hate
Sock it in the eye
Shoot it in the stomach yelling "Die die die°
We'll pull its insides out
And look at what it ate.
We're gonna stamp out hate.

We're gonna stamp out hate.
Lash it with a switch
Amputate its arms and legs and see how long they twitch
We'll put its toes on hooks
And dangle them for bait
We're gonna stamp out hate.

We're gonna stamp out hate
Show him who's the boss
Take him up a lonely hill and nail him to a cross
Won't it be kicks to watch
The blood coagulate
We're gonna stamp out hate.

We're gonna stamp out hate
Poke it with a pick
Chill it till it's solid then we'll sell it on a stick

We're gonna stamp out hate
Kill without a trace
Stick a finger up its nose and pull it off his face

We're gonna stamp out hate
Lynch him with a rope
Find a Nazi doctor who can boil him down for soap
We'll pull his teeth right out
And sell the silverplate —

"Ladies and gentlemen, in these troubled times,
I think there's a lesson to be learned from these
Dedicated young people, getting together on a stage—"
(BOYS and GIRLS slowly turn to him, advance on him as
He retreats and menace him with knife, rope, etc.
He is then stabbed. As he falls, the others slowly
Turn away and whistle "We're Gonna Stamp Out Hate."

[Wahoo Redux]

I will give myself full credit for saying to my friend Marsh, "Give out hate, get hate back."

He is then stabbed. As he falls, the others slowly
Turn away and whistle

There you go.

[marshwiggle]

I will give myself full credit for saying to my friend Marsh, "Give out hate, get hate back."

He is then stabbed. As he falls, the others slowly
Turn away and whistle

There you go.

So who's the moral champion in this scenario?

[ciao_yall]

National Brotherhood Week, by Tom Lehrer

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks
And the black folks hate the white folks
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule

But during
National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clark are dancing cheek to cheek
It's fun to eulogize the people you despise
As long you don't let them in your school

Oh, the poor folks, hate the rich folks
And the rich folks hate the poor folks
All of my folks hate all of your folks
It's American as apple pie

But during
National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans cause it's very chic
Step up and shake the hand of someone you can't stand
You can tolerate him if you try

Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the Muslims
And everybody hates the Jews

But during
National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone-Smile-At-One-Another-hood Week
Be nice to people who are inferior to you
It's only for a week so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year

[Wahoo Redux]

I will give myself full credit for saying to my friend Marsh, "Give out hate, get hate back."

He is then stabbed. As he falls, the others slowly
Turn away and whistle

There you go.

So who's the moral champion in this scenario?

Neither, buddy.

I know you see the world in simple dichotomies, but that's not the point of the song. 

If you let hate out, hate proliferates.  And pretty soon the non-haters become neo-haters.

The point of the song is "don't hate!"

Don't hate the drag queen in the library.  Let her do her thing.

Big-D was brilliant to point that out.