2024 Elections Thread

[marshwiggle]

Here is a survey by Pew, who I think is serious, about voting preferences among various demographic groups. It is only three days old and contains a graphic, so everyone can form their own conclusions:

Harris-Trump-Kennedy

What I find fascinating is that demographic groups identified include gender, race, and educational attainment, but not anything Charlie Marx would have recognized as class. The class war is over. The war of all against all is on.

What will happen on election day:

• At least 40% of the electorate will not vote.
• Only ~ six states will be competitive and determine the electoral college outcome.
• The Fox-watching white retiree segment of the electorate will overwhelmingly vote for Trump because of its fear of non-fat, non-white working people whose taxes pay for their socialist Medicare and Social Security benefits.
• Most of the college-educated under-30s will not vote because they prefer scrolling through TikTok videos.
• Soccer moms will be a key demographic.

The only things that I can see altering the above scenario:

• Trump decompensates on video or suffers a heart attack/stroke.
• Taylor Swift publicly campaigns for Harris.

I guess that would mainly affect the TikTok crowd.

[secundem_artem]

The most depressing thing on earth is that this election is even competitive.  Honest to Gawd, at least 40% of this country is too fucking stupid to be allowed within 100 yards of an election ballot.  We need some kind of updated poll tax where your IQ is at least 2.5 times your belt size.  Or your years of education x 7 give you a ballot. Or at least you have more teeth than tatoos. 

[dismalist]

The most depressing thing on earth is that this election is even competitive.  Honest to Gawd, at least 40% of this country is too fucking stupid to be allowed within 100 yards of an election ballot.  We need some kind of updated poll tax where your IQ is at least 2.5 times your belt size.  Or your years of education x 7 give you a ballot. Or at least you have more teeth than tatoos. 

Alas, we will disagree about which 40%! Education, as we know it, is not necessarily a good thing.

My preferred reduction in voting rights is to grant the right to vote at age 40 and take it away at retirement age, say 70.

[apl68]

There's some very offensive and hateful stereotyping going on on this thread.  People who aren't like you, or me, or any of us here are still U.S. citizens with the right to vote.  And holding people who aren't the same as you, or me, or any of us here is no way to encourage them to make more constructive choices.

[little bongo]

You're right, of course, but I get the frustration. I'm not sure when it's been quite so difficult to see and appreciate other political viewpoints, especially in the presidential race. Both sides have long left behind the "I disagree" phase and are firmly planted in "We're good, you're evil" mode--hard to find common ground under those circumstances.

That said, Trump is an evil mofo, so I guess I'm no help, either.

[secundem_artem]

There's some very offensive and hateful stereotyping going on on this thread.  People who aren't like you, or me, or any of us here are still U.S. citizens with the right to vote.  And holding people who aren't the same as you, or me, or any of us here is no way to encourage them to make more constructive choices.

The problem with stereotypes is that there is always a germ of truth in them.

[spork]

[...]

The problem with stereotypes is that there is always a germ of truth in them.

I resemble that remark!

[marshwiggle]

There's some very offensive and hateful stereotyping going on on this thread.  People who aren't like you, or me, or any of us here are still U.S. citizens with the right to vote.  And holding people who aren't the same as you, or me, or any of us here is no way to encourage them to make more constructive choices.

The problem with stereotypes is that there is always a germ of truth in them.

But, at the same time, and by the same token, even overblown criticisms have a germ of truth in them.
Writing off the arguments of those who disagree with you as only rantings of evil idiots prevents you from recognizing that some of their concerns are actually shared by a lot of "normal" people as well.

[Langue_doc]

There's some very offensive and hateful stereotyping going on on this thread.  People who aren't like you, or me, or any of us here are still U.S. citizens with the right to vote.  And holding people who aren't the same as you, or me, or any of us here is no way to encourage them to make more constructive choices.

The problem with stereotypes is that there is always a germ of truth in them.

But, at the same time, and by the same token, even overblown criticisms have a germ of truth in them.
Writing off the arguments of those who disagree with you as only rantings of evil idiots prevents you from recognizing that some of their concerns are actually shared by a lot of "normal" people as well.

Or referring to some of "the evil idiots" as "deplorables", without even listening to their concerns.

[ciao_yall]

There's some very offensive and hateful stereotyping going on on this thread.  People who aren't like you, or me, or any of us here are still U.S. citizens with the right to vote.  And holding people who aren't the same as you, or me, or any of us here is no way to encourage them to make more constructive choices.

The problem with stereotypes is that there is always a germ of truth in them.

But, at the same time, and by the same token, even overblown criticisms have a germ of truth in them.
Writing off the arguments of those who disagree with you as only rantings of evil idiots prevents you from recognizing that some of their concerns are actually shared by a lot of "normal" people as well.

Or referring to some of "the evil idiots" as "deplorables", without even listening to their concerns.

Polling and then grouping respondents by visible characteristics tends to lead to generalizations that border into stereotypes in general.

Coupled with an instinct to demonize those with whom we disagree, we'll eventually hit Godwin's Law.

[Langue_doc]

Hillary, could you give the "It's my turn, my turn" chant a rest? This is a democracy where we vote for the candiate we think would best represent us and the country. The presidency isn't a freebie that's awarded to someone because it's their turn. It's the qualifications that matter, and not the gender, skin-color, religion, body parts/anatomy, or the slew of other characterisitcs.

Clinton Rallies Democrats Behind Harris: 'This Is When We Break Through'
Eight years after failing to smash the "highest and hardest glass ceiling" in politics, Hillary Clinton urged her party to make Kamala Harris the nation's first female president.

Harris should win because of her qualifications. Focusing on her gender would be a turn-off for many voters.

[marshwiggle]

Hillary, could you give the "It's my turn, my turn" chant a rest? This is a democracy where we vote for the candiate we think would best represent us and the country. The presidency isn't a freebie that's awarded to someone because it's their turn. It's the qualifications that matter, and not the gender, skin-color, religion, body parts/anatomy, or the slew of other characterisitcs.

Clinton Rallies Democrats Behind Harris: 'This Is When We Break Through'
Eight years after failing to smash the "highest and hardest glass ceiling" in politics, Hillary Clinton urged her party to make Kamala Harris the nation's first female president.

Harris should win because of her qualifications. Focusing on her gender would be a turn-off for many voters.

I never understood the pitch to women that they should vote for Clinton because "only a woman could represent their interests", since by the same logic men should only vote for Trump, since only a man could represent their interests. (And in the current situation, white people shouldn't vote for Harris since she won't represent their interests.)

Identitarian messaging is so illogical.

[Ruralguy]

I think there might be a case to be made that women might be able to represent women better on certain issues that pertain to women more than they do to men, but that presumes that all women available to represent us care about such issues, or our knowledgeable, or would be agreeable on all other issues. Alas, that's not the case.

I think some people are just legitimately excited that we could have the first woman as president. Of course, that's mostly people who would vote for Harris anyway. Those who don't agree with her won't vote for her!

So, although we sometimes get to be overly "identitarian," its mostly balanced with actual policy you can justifiable hate (talking to Marshwiggle here).

[lightning]

Hillary, could you give the "It's my turn, my turn" chant a rest? This is a democracy where we vote for the candiate we think would best represent us and the country. The presidency isn't a freebie that's awarded to someone because it's their turn. It's the qualifications that matter, and not the gender, skin-color, religion, body parts/anatomy, or the slew of other characterisitcs.

Clinton Rallies Democrats Behind Harris: 'This Is When We Break Through'
Eight years after failing to smash the "highest and hardest glass ceiling" in politics, Hillary Clinton urged her party to make Kamala Harris the nation's first female president.

Harris should win because of her qualifications. Focusing on her gender would be a turn-off for many voters.

The problem with your argument is that Hillary was the much more qualified candidate in 2016, and we all know how that turned out.

I will go so far as to say that her qualifications turned off a lot of voters, and these voters saw those qualifications as a liability.

[Sea_Ice]

She had enough baggage that smear campaigns would work for some.  Especially for those who felt completely alienated from the Federal Government, and felt backed into a corner, such that they "voted with their middle finger".

I can only hope that the reasonable folks who voted for the sewer have excellent memories so that they don't repeat that mistake/experiment again.