Letter of rec question for troublesome student

[jerseyjay]

A student graduating from my program asked me for a letter of recommendation to become a teacher. Since we are a very small department, and several professors have retired or left in the last several years, I am one of the few professors who could write such a letter.

The student is academically strong (in the top 25 per cent; not a genius but certainly well performing). He has taken at least five of my upper-level courses and done well in them.

The problem is the student has a combination of a) very strong traditional religious beliefs, especially on issues of sex and gender; b) very strong political beliefs, that some might describe as reactionary and racist; c) a disregard for what his peers and often professors think of him; and d) most likely some form of autism spectrum issue. (I am not competent to diagnose people, nor is it my place to do so, and he has not registered with our office of disability services, but his frequent discussion of autism, and the fact that several students who have had experiences with people on the spectrum have commented that he seems to be on the spectrum, has led me to believe that he may be autistic.) The result is that he is universally disliked by students, several professors have expressed serious concerns about him. He especially has trouble with women, especially women who are in a position of authority (either administrative or intellectual).

So I am not sure how to handle writing a letter.

I could refuse outright, which would generally be my response, but given the fact that I am one of the few professors qualified to write the letter, I am wary about this.

I could write a letter that, truthfully, highlights his strong academic skills. This would probably get him a job, but I honestly don't believe he would be able to keep a job.

I could write a letter, truthfully, that highlights his bad interpersonal skills and note I don't think he would make a good teacher. However, I have been taught that such letters are to be avoided.

I could write a letter, truthfully, that says both he is academically bright and has had problems dealing with other people. This would be the most honest, but would probably have the result of torpedoing his job search as well.

So I am stuck. Does anybody have any experience or suggestions with situations like this?

[marshwiggle]

The problem is the student has a combination of a) very strong traditional religious beliefs, especially on issues of sex and gender; b) very strong political beliefs, that some might describe as reactionary and racist;

Those issues are less important than these:

c) a disregard for what his peers and often professors think of him; and d) most likely some form of autism spectrum issue.
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The result is that he is universally disliked by students, several professors have expressed serious concerns about him. He especially has trouble with women, especially women who are in a position of authority (either administrative or intellectual).

I don't have a clear answer, but an ideological disagreement with a student should be much less of a deciding factor than any actual factors regarding the student's performance. For instance, regarding teaching, if the student would fit in well in a place with similar ideological views, then there's no problem. But if there are things which would make the student hard for people to work with regardless of institution, that's different.

Leave the ideological filtering to whoever is hiring.

[jerseyjay]

The problem is the student has a combination of a) very strong traditional religious beliefs, especially on issues of sex and gender; b) very strong political beliefs, that some might describe as reactionary and racist;

Those issues are less important than these:

c) a disregard for what his peers and often professors think of him; and d) most likely some form of autism spectrum issue.
.
.
.

The result is that he is universally disliked by students, several professors have expressed serious concerns about him. He especially has trouble with women, especially women who are in a position of authority (either administrative or intellectual).

I don't have a clear answer, but an ideological disagreement with a student should be much less of a deciding factor than any actual factors regarding the student's performance. For instance, regarding teaching, if the student would fit in well in a place with similar ideological views, then there's no problem. But if there are things which would make the student hard for people to work with regardless of institution, that's different.

Leave the ideological filtering to whoever is hiring.

You are right about this, and I am sorry for being unclear. I would not discuss the student's religion, politics, or possible health status. All those would be unfair, and likely to get me sued. However, the fact that his views are, well contrarian, and he has a very bad sense of how to handle social situation, only provoke the worse aspects of his personality. One could say, very truthfully, that he does not handle situations of diverse opinion or backgrounds very well, which would be very bad as a public school teacher in the city he is applying for a job in.

[Puget]

I would tell the student "I can write a letter that speaks positively about your academic performance but also I would have to be honest about the interpersonal difficulties I observed you having in my classes, since interpersonal skills are very important for teaching. Knowing that, would you still want me to be a reference, or would you rather find someone else?" This is the approach I've taken when I've had students ask me for a letter and I can't write an entirely positive one. Usually they choose to find someone else.

[apl68]

I would tell the student "I can write a letter that speaks positively about your academic performance but also I would have to be honest about the interpersonal difficulties I observed you having in my classes, since interpersonal skills are very important for teaching. Knowing that, would you still want me to be a reference, or would you rather find someone else?" This is the approach I've taken when I've had students ask me for a letter and I can't write an entirely positive one. Usually they choose to find someone else.

Puget probably has the best approach there.

I remember some years ago my mother telling me about a dilemma she had regarding one of her college students who had asked her for a letter of recommendation.  IIRC, the student wasn't a jerk, but also wasn't really that good.  Mom couldn't give a very strong recommendation, but was very reluctant to say so in writing for fear of hurting the student's chances.  I pointed out that if she didn't reserve her strong recommendations for truly strong students, it might lead to her recommendations coming to be less trusted.  Which might hurt any truly strong students she recommended in the future.

I try to bear all this in mind whenever a former staff member here uses me for a reference.

[the_geneticist]

I would tell the student "I can write a letter that speaks positively about your academic performance but also I would have to be honest about the interpersonal difficulties I observed you having in my classes, since interpersonal skills are very important for teaching. Knowing that, would you still want me to be a reference, or would you rather find someone else?" This is the approach I've taken when I've had students ask me for a letter and I can't write an entirely positive one. Usually they choose to find someone else.

This.
I tell students when I cannot write them a specific and strong letter.
I don't get many letter requests from undergraduates since I have freshman lab classes.  I'm happy to write letters of support for internal scholarships, internships, etc; but decline the letters to med school.  A 'Did Well In Class' in Baskets 101 lab isn't going to help them. 

[lightning]

"I can write a letter that speaks positively about your academic performance but also I would have to be honest about the interpersonal difficulties I observed you having in my classes, since interpersonal skills are very important for teaching. Knowing that, would you still want me to be a reference, or would you rather find someone else?"

Puget's suggestion is brilliantly concise, honest, and constructive. It has been eons since I've written a rec letter for someone that wants to become a k-12 teacher, but I'm sure I'll have to do it again someday and I'm going to use Puget's line.


Regarding the student's religious and political beliefs, yes, and I'm with Marshy, it's best to keep references to the student's religion and politics out of the letter. However, if you have observed racist, homophobic, transphobic, and/or misogynistic behavior & interactions with others, you have every right and it's your obligation to let the hiring authority know that you have directly observed such behavior.

[the_geneticist]

One caveat: letters for K12 folks are often "open" letters, meaning you give the letter to the candidate & they send in the letter with the rest of the application.

I'd err on the side of printing on embossed paper, sign in ink, and scan.  Don't give out an editable electronic version.

[kaysixteen]

It troubles me that the kid's religious and political views were the first things you mentioned.   Many of the stronger red flag-type issues you mentioned could easily be the OP's reaction to views coming from the student's religious and political views.  What is 'homophobic' behavior, and what such behavior have you observed from him?  Same for racist, misogynistic, reactionary, etc., behavior.  You should probably be able to outline exactly what he has done/said.

[jerseyjay]

It troubles me that the kid's religious and political views were the first things you mentioned.  Many of the stronger red flag-type issues you mentioned could easily be the OP's reaction to views coming from the student's religious and political views.  What is 'homophobic' behavior, and what such behavior have you observed from him?  Same for racist, misogynistic, reactionary, etc., behavior.  You should probably be able to outline exactly what he has done/said.

Well, he is a very religious person, at least as he sees it, so his views of the world are very much filtered through his religion. In the scheme of the world, his religion is not particularly unique since it is one of the major religions of the world, but his particular take on it (and his distaste for those who have different views of how to apply this religion) are both strict and strident. But it is not just his religious beliefs (which also influence his political beliefs) that are upsetting, per se, but his insistence on telling everybody about them and denouncing people who do not accept them as wrong. This is especially true for women--and particularly for women of his own ethnic/religious background, who view him as some kind of throwback to the Middle Ages.

The student has said: women who have sex before marriage are prostitutes; that homosexuality is a sin; it is wrong to have sexual thoughts before marriage; has implied that rape in some circumstances is acceptable; that Tarquin's treatment of Lucretia was justified. He has argued that Japanese people are uniquely and inherently martial and hence anti-Japanese camps in Word War II were acceptable; that women are less intelligent than men; that women professors are worse than men professors; he has argued that different sects of his religion are not really moral and other religious groups from his homeland are wrong. He has argued that strong peoples have a duty and right to dominate weaker peoples.


Is this a reflection of immaturity? Of being a reactionary? Of his religious views? Of not having a filter in dealing with people? Probably all of the above. Students and professors have, for several years, complained about him, and I know that some students have refused to take courses he is enrolled in.

I am leaning towards Puget's approach.

[Ruralguy]

I agree that Puget's approach is probably best. But...

Do you think he should get a shot? If so, personally mention that you understand he might have a disability and you suggest that he be encouraged to get help dealing with it and with other people. But mention that based in your interactions with him you think he should get a shot at the job.

If you don't think he should get a shot, then maybe think about bowing out.

[kaysixteen]

His homeland?  IOW he is not an American?

Some of these views are certainly outre, but, well, not exactly all of them.   I trust, further, than you know he thinks these things, because you yourself have heard him say them, or seen him say these things in written form.

[Hegemony]

The assumption seems to be that you should be serving the student, but I hope you will also look at serving the school that is considering employing him.

One tactic might be to describe his skills and views neutrally. After all, if he thinks his views are fine, why should you hide them? If, for instance, he expresses the view that people of [X ethnicity] are "born criminals," you could write, "In a class discussion of gang troubles in schools, he remarked that 'Those [of X ethnicity] are just born that way, they're stupider so they have to turn to crime.' This forthright statement of opinion is typical of Tom."

Or whatever. No facts reported that were not true, and presumably none that he would object to.

Of course you may say "But if I write the truth like that, he won't get a teaching job!" I wonder if it's anyone's responsibility to conceal important facts so someone unqualified can get a teaching job? Him turning to another profession would probably be a benefit to all.

[kaysixteen]

One more thing came to me mind-- we probably all agree that the OP would have no business putting his speculations wrt stu being on the spectrum onto any rec he might write (OP agrees as well, even though, well, he is probably correct in this assumption).  I am thus wonderin' whether, and under what potential circumstances, it would ever be acceptable/ appropriate, for a college prof holding such suspicions about one of his students, to recommend to said student that he seek to be tested for such conditions?  I say this because it seems, IIRC, to be the general opinion around here that a prof could and probably should recommend psychological counseling services of their campus to a student who appears to be in psychological distress, even if said student has not actually said or done anything indicative of his being a danger to himself a/o others....?  If so, what might be the difference in these two situations?

[Hegemony]

I think it would only be appropriate to suggest testing if the student brought it up. Student: "I've been wondering, do you think I should get tested for autism?" "If you think testing would be beneficial, you could look into it, but I'm not really the person to ask about these things. A psychologist would be the person to consult."

The thing is that a professor is not, and should not be, in the business of trying to diagnose people. (At Least out loud. We can hold whatever opinions we hold, privately.) We're concerned with the ways students' behaviors affect their learning. If they lose their assignments all the time, this may be a sign of ADHD, but our concern is with the lost assignments, not with the broader question of ADHD. If the student is awkward and abrupt with classmates, this may be a sign of autism (or not), but the concern should be with whether the student is respectful to other members of the class, not with their larger diagnosis. We're not their life coach. We're trying to run a classroom and facilitate learning.