exams for students with disabilities

[fizzycist]

24 hrs sounds like way too much. Should be within a couple hrs.

[marshwiggle]

I've been wondering about the following scenario:

As accommodations become more common, more students are getting the "20 minutes extra per hour on tests". If a class, especially a small one, had a majority of students with this, how would it be if the instructor just gave the usual exam, but made it a 3 hour exam instead of the previous 2 hour limit?

(Actually, I know what would happen; they wouldn't accept it. Because the standard is completely relative, it would still require "normal" students to do it in less time.)

[the_geneticist]

I've been wondering about the following scenario:

As accommodations become more common, more students are getting the "20 minutes extra per hour on tests". If a class, especially a small one, had a majority of students with this, how would it be if the instructor just gave the usual exam, but made it a 3 hour exam instead of the previous 2 hour limit?

(Actually, I know what would happen; they wouldn't accept it. Because the standard is completely relative, it would still require "normal" students to do it in less time.)

I've never had a majority of students in a class have an accommodation of additional time.  I'd just send them to the testing center to get the additional time.
Most students are likely have class either right before or right after yours anyway (or someone else is teaching in that room).

And we can normalize writing exams that we expect prepared students to finish without a time rush.

[bio-nonymous]

I've been wondering about the following scenario:

As accommodations become more common, more students are getting the "20 minutes extra per hour on tests". If a class, especially a small one, had a majority of students with this, how would it be if the instructor just gave the usual exam, but made it a 3 hour exam instead of the previous 2 hour limit?

(Actually, I know what would happen; they wouldn't accept it. Because the standard is completely relative, it would still require "normal" students to do it in less time.)

I've never had a majority of students in a class have an accommodation of additional time.  I'd just send them to the testing center to get the additional time.
Most students are likely have class either right before or right after yours anyway (or someone else is teaching in that room).

And we can normalize writing exams that we expect prepared students to finish without a time rush.

Most of the students around here with accommodations have 1.5x time PLUS low distraction environment (i.e., they cannot take a test in a classroom with lots of other students around!). Also, no matter how much time the regular students get, they always get 1.5x. My exams give the regular students a big excess of time anyway (most but not all finish way early), so the accommodation students are getting a huge amount of time.

[artalot]

Eh, I've worked in a variety of fields and most of my tasks haven't been timed. You get a deadline, sure. But not, finish this spreadsheet in 1.5 hours.

[the_geneticist]

I see no problem with extra time.  I don't think "time to completion" should be a limiting factor.  Once upon a time, I was a TA & was instructed to physically take an exam out of the hands of a crying student at the end of class.  She hadn't finished.  It was horrible. 

[marshwiggle]

I see no problem with extra time.  I don't think "time to completion" should be a limiting factor. 

For first responders, people in emergency medicine, airline pilots, and others, time to completion is definitely a limiting factor. (It isn't in what I do, but I'm sympathetic to the argument that arbitrarily changing the requirements for some students regardless of task makes it much less clear what is even meant by "successful completion".)

[fizzycist]

Thinking quickly on your feet under stress is amongst the most important things you can do in all the jobs I've had. This includes boatyard janitor, big-box store remodeling, industry scientist, and university prof.

Sure, you can still do well without perfecting this skill, but that doesn't mean it isn't important and shouldn't be practiced often.

(No I'm not saying there shouldn't be any accomodations for students with disabilities, but I do think we've gone too far).

[marshwiggle]

Thinking quickly on your feet under stress is amongst the most important things you can do in all the jobs I've had. This includes boatyard janitor, big-box store remodeling, industry scientist, and university prof.

Sure, you can still do well without perfecting this skill, but that doesn't mean it isn't important and shouldn't be practiced often.

(No I'm not saying there shouldn't be any accomodations for students with disabilities, but I do think we've gone too far).

The big problem is the lazy, "one size fits all" approach that seems to be helping but doesn't require any significant analysis of what that would legitimately require. For students with physical disabilities, e.g. blind, deaf, physically disabled, it's usually much more clear what is needed because without accommodations they wouldn't be able to do things at all. But in the realm of "learning disabilities", the definitions can be very vague and the point of accommodations seems to be about just slackening the rules by which everyone else has to abide, without the need to establish whether (and when, and even if), that should apply.

If an instructor designs a test so that everyone completes in the the required time, the PTB will still require "extra" time for accommodations, ignoring the design principle that has already addressed the issue.

[Parasaurolophus]

I don't really see the problem with extra time accommodations. Sometimes up to a third of one of my classes has them, and it's very rare for anyone to actually end up using the extra time (indeed, it's rare for anyone to use all of the allotted time). But I don't see the harm in it. It's there in case it turns out that they do need it. And if they don't, great.

[marshwiggle]

I don't really see the problem with extra time accommodations. Sometimes up to a third of one of my classes has them, and it's very rare for anyone to actually end up using the extra time (indeed, it's rare for anyone to use all of the allotted time). But I don't see the harm in it. It's there in case it turns out that they do need it. And if they don't, great.

See my comment in the other thread. It means that scheduling has to allow the extra time automatically, since as long as there's one student needing it, the schedule need to accommodate it. In place like a lab, this is a nightmare.

[kaysixteen]

Are there any legal criteria set up by the fed govt/ fed courts that specifically spell out what can and cannot be used to get a disabilities accommodation, and might also provide standards of proof for verifying such?

[Puget]

Are there any legal criteria set up by the fed govt/ fed courts that specifically spell out what can and cannot be used to get a disabilities accommodation, and might also provide standards of proof for verifying such?

Yes, the ADA.

I don't think it is typical to just accept a letter from any doctor. Here, there are extensive testing requirements for accommodations related to ADHD, learning disabilities, etc. If anything I think the issue is equity of access to that testing (which is expensive and hard to obtain- it is NOT provided by the university).

[the_geneticist]

I see no problem with extra time.  I don't think "time to completion" should be a limiting factor. 

For first responders, people in emergency medicine, airline pilots, and others, time to completion is definitely a limiting factor. (It isn't in what I do, but I'm sympathetic to the argument that arbitrarily changing the requirements for some students regardless of task makes it much less clear what is even meant by "successful completion".)

My view is from teaching introductory classes.  Quizzes and exams in freshmen [baskets 101] is not in any way equivalent to a professional certification. 

Taking a class is NOT a job.  And certainly not a job with essential standards like "must be able to run, leap, and climb ladders while carrying 100 pounds of equipment in a firefighter suit"

If you are teaching classes that are part of a professional program, then it is reasonable to have restrictions because the JOB has minimal qualifications.

My students have no idea what jobs they will have.  It's not reasonable to say "since some of you think you want to be a surgeon, then no one is allowed additional time on timed assessments". 

[Hegemony]

I'll add that some of the arguments on here seem to be arguing two things at once, and the two things are contradictory:

1) Students are cheating and not really slow processors; they just want unwarranted extra time on exams.

2) Students who are slow processors shouldn't be accommodated, because some situations require fast processing!

So either way, accommodations are unwarranted, right? This line of argument, from people with no professional expertise in neuroscience or in accommodations, reminds me of those guys who call up our history department and say "I read some stuff about World War II and I think people have it all wrong! How about I come and teach for you guys and explain why everybody's wrong?" As if what some scholars have spent their whole lives working on can be dismantled by somebody walking in with a couple of hunches.