"prayers for the victims and their families"

[nebo113]

Don't mean squat.  We are insane and I feel truly helpless and hopeless.

[aside]

Insanity, beyond understanding.  What will it take?

[pigou]

Someone wrote a manifesto against immigration, planned to kill immigrants who are invading the country, drove hours to go to a place where those immigrants are, then opened fire and killed many of them... and politicians are calling it a case of "mental health problems" (Bernie Sanders) and an issue with video games (House minority leader).

At least the FBI is calling it what it is: domestic terrorism. But background checks and mental health evaluations are not how anyone would respond if this shooter had been inspired by Al Qaeda instead of 8chan (or Breitbart). Which means we'll not have an effective response (or any response) and so it's only a matter of time until more people are similarly "inspired" to take action.

[mamselle]

I"m both praying for the victims and their families, and that there will be a leader somwhere who stands against the evil of hatred and the will to kill those who, for whatever reason, seem different, threatening, more successful, or simply unwanted to unstable, willingly cruel individuals.

I agree the situation in its entirity is insane, but there was too much planning and intentional action evidenced to call the shooters in Mississippi, California, Texas, or Ohio this week "insane."

It's that very intentionality and will to carry out a plan that bother me the most.

And the sense that some, at least, will resonate with some aspects of those plans--and even make, or carry out, more such plans--is infuriating.

M.

[Thursday's_Child]

I don't feel up to searching the old fora now, but remember a wise forumite once predicting that real change will require that everyone be personally affected by such a shooting.

I hope that is wrong.  I'm afraid that it's true.

[spork]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

Allowing nearly unlimited civilian access to military-grade weapons is insane.

[mamselle]

My NP's twitter feed is showing people in El Paso lining up to give blood.

Community groups are trying to provide support for those affected on-the-ground.

The assailant procured his weapon legally, and the shooting will be treated as domestic terrorism (a phrase that bothers me, on its own terms) per this report:

   https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/el-paso-shooting-being-treated-domestic-terrorism-police-say-suspect-n1039076

The morality associated with the death penalty will also come into the issue, since those charges carry mortal repercussions as well.

-=-=-=-

I'm more stunned by the situation in Dayton, having been raised nearby in Columbus.

The cause is less clear, although a family member was among those killed....domestic violence in a different sense, perhaps.

Making theater of one's anger, perhaps.

M.

[nebo113]

My NP's twitter feed is showing people in El Paso lining up to give blood.

Community groups are trying to provide support for those affected on-the-ground.

The assailant procured his weapon legally, and the shooting will be treated as domestic terrorism (a phrase that bothers me, on its own terms) per this report:

   https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/el-paso-shooting-being-treated-domestic-terrorism-police-say-suspect-n1039076

The morality associated with the death penalty will also come into the issue, since those charges carry mortal repercussions as well.

-=-=-=-

I'm more stunned by the situation in Dayton, having been raised nearby in Columbus.

The cause is less clear, although a family member was among those killed....domestic violence in a different sense, perhaps.

Making theater of one's anger, perhaps.

M.

Apparently, he, his sister, and her male companion drove together, and he killed his sister and wounded her companion before gunning down others.  The male companion lived, and is talking with police.  I'm wondering if the male companion was a person of color. 

[irhack]

Insanity, beyond understanding.  What will it take?

If Americans won't rally for gun control after a bunch of white elementary school children were murdered in their classrooms, they're certainly not going to do it for a bunch of brown walmart shoppers.

This is the country we live it. It loves guns more than children.

[reener06]

Four thoughts on this horrific weekend:

I agree that until every single person knows someone killed nothing will change. Except I'm afraid by that point we will have become completely immune to the violence.

I used to wonder how people lived in areas where suicide bombing was common. Now I know.

When can the President be charged with inciting violence?

I thought this weekend if a brave family of a slain loved one agreed to show the pictures of this carnage it might make a difference, much like Emmett Till's mother. And that would be horrific.

[mamselle]

Yes, shock-TV, murder mysteries, reality-survival "games" have all gotten there first.

I tried to suggest to my friend's 5-yr-old that we not play the video game in which two little kids in a boat shoot-to-kill pirates and other dressed-up "bad guys."

"Oh, it's not real," he said. "They always come back..."

M.

[writingprof]

When can the President be charged with inciting violence?

Oh, give me a break.  Should Sanders be charged for "inciting" the violence against the Republican baseball team?  Should the Left in general be charged with "inciting" any and all violence against white people?

[permanent imposter]

Insanity, beyond understanding.  What will it take?

If Americans won't rally for gun control after a bunch of white elementary school children were murdered in their classrooms, they're certainly not going to do it for a bunch of brown walmart shoppers.

This is the country we live it. It loves guns more than children.

I don't feel up to searching the old fora now, but remember a wise forumite once predicting that real change will require that everyone be personally affected by such a shooting.

I hope that is wrong.  I'm afraid that it's true.

IIRC, Congress was personally affected by two such shootings. They still aren't doing anything.

At this point, I'm not sure what can be done even if the NRA influence is removed. I feel like there is a poison at the heart of our country. I am extremely dubious about those flag-worshipping types but the truth is I'm a little envious. To me, a country that won't defend its weak and its children is worth very little.

[mamselle]

It just occurred to me that, once again, learning Spanish is now an act of political solidarity with those in need of support.

I recall the move towards bi-and tri-lingual hymns a generation ago, when El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Tieneman Square were in the news.

Seems as if we're there again.

I wonder what might have happened if more Germans had learned Yiddish (which in some ways resembles German speech and vocabulary patterns)? I don't think Hebrew was much spoken in the 1930s, anywhere, but linguistic solidarity is one way to both stand with others, morally, and be available to help them practically as well.

M.

[Thursday's_Child]

IIRC, Congress was personally affected by two such shootings. They still aren't doing anything.

<snip>

Warning!  Potentially inflammatory comment!

Lets not conflate "people" and "congress".  The majority of politicians are far more responsive to lobbyists and other special interests than to individual or groups of voters because $$$$$$$$$$$$$!

Hence, the old definition from Ambrose Bierce:  "A politician is an arse, upon which everything has sat but a man."

I don't know how to break congress into actually doing the will of the voters - it won't be easy or simple.