Impeachment

[spork]

Does anyone but me wonder what's going on inside the Conway house?

Have we heard much from her lately?

She's probably got a team of lawyers trying to figure out if she risks being indicted and is keeping a low profile in the meantime.

[polly_mer]

Regarding national security and executive privilege . . . given the information in the whistleblower's complaint, at least a half dozen people had immediate knowledge of the contents and purpose of Trump's call to Zelensky. And I bet that knowledge traveled pretty rapidly to others in the White House, and maybe the attorney general, given the attempt to hide the transcript of the call on a server system that is supposed to be dedicated only to highly secret and compartmentalized intelligence information.

Half a dozen people is still pretty close hold as classified briefings go.  Classified auditoriums can seat hundreds of people who have need-to-know for a given situation.

In my experience, "highly secret and compartmentalized" has a term of art meaning that is nothing like the impression one gets from watching spy movies.

[spork]

A brief history of Trump's mishandling of classified information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%27s_disclosures_of_classified_information.


By the way, my earlier comment about Kellyanne Conway was sarcastic. Her status seems to be that of a media mouthpiece, whose only job is to troll people on various cable TV networks. She doesn't seem to have any role in White House policy or procedures.

[spork]

Igor Fruman, one of the two men arrested at Dulles Airport attempting to flee the country, with Donald Trump:

https://www.forumdaily.com/en/russkoyazychnyj-biznesmen-prinyal-uchastie-vo-vstreche-trampa-s-potencialnymi-donorami-ego-kampanii-2020-goda/.

(Note on the webpage: automatically translated from Russian)

[nebo113]

Igor Fruman, one of the two men arrested at Dulles Airport attempting to flee the country, with Donald Trump:

https://www.forumdaily.com/en/russkoyazychnyj-biznesmen-prinyal-uchastie-vo-vstreche-trampa-s-potencialnymi-donorami-ego-kampanii-2020-goda/.

(Note on the webpage: automatically translated from Russian)

And Rudy was apparently set to fly to Vienna the next day, after lunching with his two fixers at 45's Tower the day before the two cheapskate brainiacs fled on a one way ticket.

[mamselle]

Does anyone but me wonder what's going on inside the Conway house?

Have we heard much from her lately?

She's probably got a team of lawyers trying to figure out if she risks being indicted and is keeping a low profile in the meantime.

Maybe she and DeVos can go for a two-fer with the attorneys...

   https://www.newsweek.com/betsy-devos-could-face-jail-after-judge-rules-violated-2018-order-1463764

M.

[paultuttle]

You know, I wonder whether some of the people in the current administration realize that they are honest-to-god subject to the same laws that everyone else is.

[Hegemony]

Trump clearly has not taken it in that soliciting tit-for-tat favors from foreign entities, with the purpose of influencing elections, is illegal — as witnessed by him asserting in public that he did so.  It's as if Nixon bragged, "Not only did we break in, but we broke in really skillfully and stole so much stuff!"  I think Trump doesn't realize that if he thinks a thing isn't or shouldn't be illegal, he could be prosecuted for it nevertheless.  I gather that he has done so many illegal things with impunity that he doesn't bother considering whether something is illegal.  I am reminded of Leona Helmsley saying that "Only the little people pay taxes."

[mouseman]

Trump clearly has not taken it in that soliciting tit-for-tat favors from foreign entities, with the purpose of influencing elections, is illegal — as witnessed by him asserting in public that he did so.  It's as if Nixon bragged, "Not only did we break in, but we broke in really skillfully and stole so much stuff!"  I think Trump doesn't realize that if he thinks a thing isn't or shouldn't be illegal, he could be prosecuted for it nevertheless.  I gather that he has done so many illegal things with impunity that he doesn't bother considering whether something is illegal.  I am reminded of Leona Helmsley saying that "Only the little people pay taxes."

That's because Nixon didn't have a senate with a majority which benefits from his illegal activity, and have absolutely no shame. A senate which will never allow even a vote on impeachment. If Nixon had McConnell and his cabal as a majority in the senate, he would have bragged, knowing that the senate would not do anything to him.

[spork]

Trump clearly has not taken it in that soliciting tit-for-tat favors from foreign entities, with the purpose of influencing elections, is illegal — as witnessed by him asserting in public that he did so.  It's as if Nixon bragged, "Not only did we break in, but we broke in really skillfully and stole so much stuff!"  I think Trump doesn't realize that if he thinks a thing isn't or shouldn't be illegal, he could be prosecuted for it nevertheless.  I gather that he has done so many illegal things with impunity that he doesn't bother considering whether something is illegal.  I am reminded of Leona Helmsley saying that "Only the little people pay taxes."

That's because Nixon didn't have a senate with a majority which benefits from his illegal activity, and have absolutely no shame. A senate which will never allow even a vote on impeachment. If Nixon had McConnell and his cabal as a majority in the senate, he would have bragged, knowing that the senate would not do anything to him.

I.e.,  Mitch McConnell, who is married to Elaine Chao: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/elaine-chao-trump-corruption-still-happening.html.

Giuliani and his crew were laundering Russian (Kremlin) money into U.S. elections. They operated in the same circles that Paul Manafort and other Trump associates did. There was a statement about Nixon's staff who were involved in Watergate, I think from the book or the film All The President's Men, which I'm going to paraphrase because I don't remember it exactly: these aren't very smart people, and they got in over their heads.

What I find most troubling is that these are the people that American citizens put into positions of power. Trump was clearly an amoral, narcissistic, corrupt windbag from Day 1, yet he still won the election and he's still in office.

[nebo113]

Trump was clearly an amoral, narcissistic, corrupt windbag from Day 1, yet he still won the election and he's still in office.


And his cult followers, many of whom are "good Christians", roar with approval when he uses language such as "kiss his ass" in front of their children.

[mamselle]

I'm troubled about many aspects of this immorality play as it's going down; one in particular is Guliani's slippage from an OK mayor and seriously anchoring figure after 911 to the tawdry, cheap little "fixer" he's now become in my eyes.

Or maybe the tawdry fixer was always there.

I also wonder what Trump's got on him that keeps him by the puir, wee man's side....

In fact, I'm starting to suspect more deeply than ever that Trump's cohort don't only hang on around him because of what they'd lose by going against him: I'm betting he ""has something" on every one of them and would blackmail them each in an instant for defecting...and they know it.

IF he had ever turned up something on Biden, he might have just Tweet-blurted it out, of course. But he might be more subtle than he appears, and just used it on the side to get Biden to drop out of the race.

Of course, with Sanders' heart issues, and Biden's poll losses just by being drug through the mud in this unfolding psychodrama, he may also be faced by that most terrifying of prospects: a strong female like Warren on the ticket (if his presidency survives to the election) or replacement by another strong female like Pelosi if Pence goes down with the ship, too.

Hmmm...to balance the ticket, Warren would need a newer, younger guy for VP....maybe Buttigieg or O'Rourke?

(Ahh..."Running mate Bingo": Topic for a new thread? So as not to derail this one...sort of like wine pairings...)

M.

[polly_mer]

I'm troubled about many aspects of this immorality play as it's going down; one in particular is Guliani's slippage from an OK mayor and seriously anchoring figure after 911 to the tawdry, cheap little "fixer" he's now become in my eyes.

Or maybe the tawdry fixer was always there.

It was always there for someone who managed to become the NYC mayor as a result of being one of the cohort.  They all have something on each other because that's how life in that kind of circle works.

Of course, with Sanders' heart issues, and Biden's poll losses just by being drug through the mud in this unfolding psychodrama, he may also be faced by that most terrifying of prospects: a strong female like Warren on the ticket (if his presidency survives to the election) or replacement by another strong female like Pelosi if Pence goes down with the ship, too.

Trump beat a strong woman last time and Warren isn't nearly as good a candidate as Hillary was.  If Pelosi is simply put in as the replacement president, then Trump has much bigger personal problems than an election in which he isn't eligible to run.

[mahagonny]

I'm troubled about many aspects of this immorality play as it's going down; one in particular is Guliani's slippage from an OK mayor and seriously anchoring figure after 911 to the tawdry, cheap little "fixer" he's now become in my eyes.

Or maybe the tawdry fixer was always there.

It was always there for someone who managed to become the NYC mayor as a result of being one of the cohort.  They all have something on each other because that's how life in that kind of circle works.

Of course, with Sanders' heart issues, and Biden's poll losses just by being drug through the mud in this unfolding psychodrama, he may also be faced by that most terrifying of prospects: a strong female like Warren on the ticket (if his presidency survives to the election) or replacement by another strong female like Pelosi if Pence goes down with the ship, too.

Trump beat a strong woman last time and Warren isn't nearly as good a candidate as Hillary was.  If Pelosi is simply put in as the replacement president, then Trump has much bigger personal problems than an election in which he isn't eligible to run.

I don't expect Trump to be terrified by anything. He only gains momentum the more he talks and faces an audience. But he ran as an outsider. Now he's an insider with baggage and a record to attack.

[polly_mer]

But he ran as an outsider. Now he's an insider with baggage and a record to attack.

The whole impeachment activity serves to indicate how Trump remains an outsider.  If Trump were an insider, then he'd either be protected or quiet words with increasing penalties would be being applied.

You only have to pull a big public spectacle when someone isn't sufficiently inside to be swayed by group pressure in private.