Smart drugs, Nootropics, and Academia

[euro_trash]

So I work in the Netherlands and we recently were informed about a national study that shows a shocking number of students (and professors) use nootropics including Ritalin, Noopept (which apparently is legal here) and Modafinil. I knew students sometimes use these drugs but I did not know professors were using them too. One of the academic trade unions says this is a result of unrealistic and unreasonable publication pressure. I don't personally know any academics doing this, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Is this a thing elsewhere?

[Diogenes]

I've only heard of students taking adderall and ritalin to bust out all nighters to finish papers and study for tests. And that was happening way back in my high school and college days in the 90's here in the USA. Makes sense stressed researchers would use it.
It's important to note they are just stimulants, so that's how they work- just make you alert. Looks like Modafinil is also.

It also looks like Noopept has no real research to suggest it is a "nootropic" might just be a placebo effect.

I'm a biological psychologist and I personally hate the claims of "nootropics" it's a whole lot of marketing with a strong dollop of BS. Want to perform better cognitively? Get good sleep, eat decent food, have a strong cup of a known nootropic called coffee, and take some breaks to get some exercise. Or do meth. That's an even stronger nootropic than adderall!

[euro_trash]

Coffee is certainly my nootropic of choice, hands down.

[ciao_yall]

I've only heard of students taking adderall and ritalin to bust out all nighters to finish papers and study for tests. And that was happening way back in my high school and college days in the 90's here in the USA. Makes sense stressed researchers would use it.
It's important to note they are just stimulants, so that's how they work- just make you alert. Looks like Modafinil is also.

It also looks like Noopept has no real research to suggest it is a "nootropic" might just be a placebo effect.

I'm a biological psychologist and I personally hate the claims of "nootropics" it's a whole lot of marketing with a strong dollop of BS. Want to perform better cognitively? Get good sleep, eat decent food, have a strong cup of a known nootropic called coffee, and take some breaks to get some exercise. Or do meth. That's an even stronger nootropic than adderall!

In the 80's it was cocaine.

[kaysixteen]

In the Netherlands, and for that matter in European countries in general:

1.  How much 'publish or perish' pressure is there for tt academics, relative to tge US?
2. How hard is it to obtain a tt job in the first place, and again relative to the US?

[euro_trash]

In the Netherlands, and for that matter in European countries in general:

1.  How much 'publish or perish' pressure is there for tt academics, relative to tge US?
2. How hard is it to obtain a tt job in the first place, and again relative to the US?

I think that there is great pressure to publish here.

There is less of a teaching professor culture here than in the USA (it's changing but university teachers are often looked down upon as basically failed academics tbh).  Normally one's job depends on the ability to acquire external funding through highly competitive national and EU-level funding mechanisms. I'm lucky in the sense that I have a permanent contract and most of my efforts are expected to go into teaching (which I enjoy a lot). Finding a post is very difficult and one has to belong to the right network, though I really cannot compare. I can imagine it's just as brutal or even more so in the UK and USA? I know many PhDs that cannot get anything but a temporary part time gig if that, and spend most of their days working in retail.

If the situation in academia in the Netherlands is typical, I'm not surprised that people are using nootropics to find an edge. I feel terrible for young researchers.

[polly_mer]

In the Netherlands, and for that matter in European countries in general:

1.  How much 'publish or perish' pressure is there for tt academics, relative to tge US?
2. How hard is it to obtain a tt job in the first place, and again relative to the US?

For my European colleagues in STEM fields overlapping mine, funded research and publication is everything as an academic.  Teaching is truly professing in the "hold forth in the large lecture hall for the undergrads and the undergrads are responsible for doing enough study to pass end-of-term exams" mindset.

My European colleagues who visit my non-academic research institution and talk with students.  University is about one's field; what's the idea with wasting everyone's time with topics that should have been covered in childhood?  Grad school is research with supplemental lectures by visiting scientists; what's the idea in wasting time with general classes as though one were still at university?

By restricting university to people who can benefit (I expect huge outcry over the recent announcement that 50% of English young people go on to higher education as of now) and then restricting again who can go to grad school based on number of funded slots, people who get through the system in areas related to mine tend to be able to find a job using those degrees.  However, not all those jobs will be intended to be permanent academic positions.

I read about the contingent position problem in British press, but that still seems to be more of a humanities/social science problem than a physics/engineering/CS problem.

[mahagonny]

I'm hearing about this for the first time, but tangentially: for me, at least, wellbutrin (prescribed for depression) has a mild amphetamine like effect. I wrote a whole grant proposal in one day after a dose once. Of course it sucked, but that probably wasn't because of the medication. Also hearing about LSD microdosing (5-20 micrograms
) which is supposed to increase mental acuity and creative thinking. Many of the things in your medicine cabinet are psychoactive in high doses. Not that I recommend them. Benadryl, dextromethorphan.

[Diogenes]

There's been enough anecdotal buzz about microdosing that studies are starting to look at it. Like this one for example. https://selfblinding-microdose.org/index.html I had a student disclose to me she was microdosing to try and treat depression.

[Parasaurolophus]

If I need or want to buckle down and work for four, five, six, or more hours straight, I just do it. I don't need drugs; I've always been able to focus single-mindedly on a task for hours on end. I just mostly choose not to. Sometimes, for fun, I'll have a tea while I do it, especially if I feel like working at a café. But that's a treat; I hardly ever drink anything caffeinated.


This idea of nootropics being used to give researchers an edge has made its way into fiction. For those of you who liked Peter Watts's Blindsight, for example, the sequel, Echopraxia, features some of this in its background. (And, of course, Iain Banks's Culture novels have a variation on this theme, as do, IIRC, some of Alastair Reynolds's novels.)

[aside]

I hardly ever drink anything caffeinated.

Neither do I, unless you count mass quantities of coffee.

Like you, I am able to concentrate on a task for hours on end.  I have had colleagues comment with envy (or perhaps pity) on that ability, but I don't think of it as anything special; it's just something you do, or don't do.

[pigou]

There's a fantastic debate show where four experts discussed whether taking study drugs should be considered cheating for undergraduates (where use is definitely prevalent in my experience -- students are pretty open about it, but it's also not clear how much of it is just a weird form of bragging and people might make it up). At the end, the two opposing the idea admitted that they, too, had taken them to meet deadlines: https://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/college-students-should-be-allowed-take-smart-drugs

It's like anything: probably quite harmful in the long run and not a replacement for good nutrition and sleep. But sometimes, you need a 24 hour push and no matter your baseline, drugs like those intended to treat ADHD will improve your focus in the short run. Sometimes, that's pretty handy.

Personally, most of my work is not helped by sitting down and banging out a document -- so there's not much use for it. But I do find myself more productive after a yoga break -- and surely there's some drug that would induce a similar effect. I think LSD can induce the state experienced by deep meditation, for example -- with (perhaps) higher health risks (especially because you can't guarantee product purity), but without years of practice.

[fast_and_bulbous]

Like you, I am able to concentrate on a task for hours on end.  I have had colleagues comment with envy (or perhaps pity) on that ability, but I don't think of it as anything special; it's just something you do, or don't do.

I temporarily lost that ability for a while when being more active on social media (mostly lurking). I felt the pull and it was like having a piece of gristle stuck between your teeth and not trying to worry it out with your tongue.

So I practice "clean digital hygiene" (what I consider it anyway... mostly curated RSS feeds for the outside world) and have all my concentration back.

I like coffee a lot but drink a measured dose (1 pot) a day and finish it by early afternoon.

Cannabis is just fine with certain kinds of work, bad for others.

Mostly work is work no matter what your state of mind. You just have to have the discipline to do it.

[pedanticromantic]

I tried modafinil and it didn't do anything. I've been on wellbutrin but it scattered my brain. I've been using  a mushroom called Lion's Bane recently which is not illegal and not psychedelic but they sell it as a cognitive boost and I have not noticed any difference.

I'm about to try microdosing, for depression more than a cognitive boost. I've tried every anti-depressant out there and had zero luck or the side effects made it intolerable.

I think a lot is placebo effect, which I seem immune to. I also think the problem with them especially is if you use them like a crutch, then you will find not using them very difficult: the tolerance builds up and you require ever higher doses until you're damaging your body.

I don't know about students, but I absolutely know professors who try to boost themselves in various ways. Now that pot is legal here there are profs that go for high-THC pot which can make you jumpy (IME) and some claim to think more clearly.
Whatever works for you. Is it cheating? At the faculty level? We're not in competition. 

[euro_trash]

I do take ginkgo biloba some afternoons with green tea if I have brain fog. It seems to help. I do this maybe once a week. I wouldn't consider this or other smart drugs cheating, but it does suggest something about our profession and work pressure. Weed is legal in the Netherlands, well, it's more correct to say "tolerated," but I can't ever imagine trying to write while loaded.