The Venting Thread

[mamselle]

Viruses. Don't. Get. Bored.

This would make a great bumper sticker.

M.

[the_geneticist]

Viruses. Don't. Get. Bored.

This would make a great bumper sticker.

M.

Or printed on a face mask!  I am very tempted.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you need to send me over 20 emails in a WEEK about your labs???!!!! Does anyone know how to think anymore?

[nescafe]

Getting Zoom-ghosted by the final office hours appointment I have scheduled this academic year. Seems about right.

[smallcleanrat]

Had the last TA meeting of the term with the professor. This shouldn't hurt so much; think I need the vent.

The course has been a major source of positive social interaction for me and the one aspect of my life I felt I was doing any good.

Other TA and prof knew each other previously; sounds like other TA had taken multiple courses with him and may have TA'ed for him before. He seems to have a lot of respect for her, she calls him by his first name, and they often have friendly chit-chat during meetings. I had never met him before this term.

Throughout the quarter, there was a series of events that I tried to brush off as no big deal individually. But collectively...it's like paper-cut upon paper-cut gradually cutting you deeper and deeper. Under normal circumstances my skin is not this thin, but these are not normal circumstances and my defenses have dwindled.

1) First lecture of term. Prof introduces us to the students. Other TA gets an introduction of the length you might hear when someone introduces a guest lecturer at a seminar; her background, her research interests, her accomplishments, etc... My intro: "and your other TA is smallcleanrat." Felt a tad awkward, but of course he knows her and I'm virtually a stranger. He also got my credentials wrong on the syllabus, but I figured it wasn't worth correcting. Do freshman really care what degree their TA has?

2) Throughout term, prof. invites occasional guest lecturers and makes sure to introduce other TA to them (with abridged version of her CV-style intro). I still get "oh, and this is smallcleanrat"; if I get mentioned at all. I figure, ok if he knows she has background/research interests that are relevant to the guest's talk it makes sense for him to make the introduction. But it's still hard not to think, "I'm here too..."

3) Prof. often asks other TA for her opinion on various points in the lecture. Never asks me. Times when I try to contribute a comment or question, other TA often speaks over me. Not in a particularly mean or anti-social way; just in the way a talkative or very enthusiastic person can't wait to speak their mind and may be oblivious to the fact that she is cutting off someone else.

4) Other TA drops out of contact for weeks at a time, preoccupied with grant-writing, lab stuff, quals, etc... Prof. emails both of us asking for various things: attendance info, a draft of the requirements and scaffolding schedule for the term paper, etc... It's always, "why don't the both of you talk it out and send me what you come up with." Other TA is incommunicado when I ask for her input. I end up doing many of these things by myself. When other TA eventually reemerges, Prof. tells her of course it was ok for her to take time away from the course to focus on her other work. She's dealing with so much.

5) As TAs, we are tasked with being on hand at the beginning of lectures to let people in from the Zoom waiting room. I notice other TA often has camera off and does not seem to be active; I often seem to be the only one actually taking care of this task.

6) At the end of the final class session of the term, Prof. makes some concluding remarks/parting advice/etc...and then asks "if the TAs have anything they would like to say to the students." I unmute myself, but other TA is already saying her bit of farewell to the students. When she is finished, I take a breath to say my piece, but prof. breaks in with "Ok, I guess that's a wrap. Goodbye everyone. Have a nice summer." Then he ends the meeting.

This one really hurt. The students were really a pleasure to interact with; enthusiastic, hardworking, and just generally a nice bunch of people. I did want to say my bit of farewell to them. I ended up sending an email to my students, expressing my appreciation for their work ethic, insights, and positive attitudes, and wishing them well in their futures.

6) All of our TA meetings are structured as short bursts of course-related logistics talk interspersed with longer stretches of friendly chitchat between other TA and Prof. I am not included in these chitchats, there never seems to be a polite place to interject, so I just bide my time waiting for the meeting to come back around to talking about the course. Occasionally, I will get a few chitchat questions, but most of the time I may as well not exist.

This last meeting...I suppose because it *was* the last meeting...I guess I was hoping for slightly more consideration. Especially since, by this point, I was completely up to date communicating with Prof. and students about points earned up to that point. Other TA had students saying they are still waiting for feedback on the midterm.

Prof. congratulates other TA on all she accomplished outside of class that term (getting grant submitted, etc...). Asks about her committee, her summer plans, etc... I don't even get a "how are you?" or "what did you get up to this week?" Sometimes I at least get questions like that.

Prof. wraps up meeting saying "well, I guess we covered everything; goodbye" right after I've just asked him a question. He then closes the meeting and I'm left staring at my desktop screen with my insides feeling raw.

[nescafe]

Wow, I'm sorry smallcleanrat. That sounds like a terrible semester to go through. I don't know what to say except: I see you, and I hope the next appointment will be a better one. It is really tough to be on the business end of this kind of crass favoritism.

[smallcleanrat]

Wow, I'm sorry smallcleanrat. That sounds like a terrible semester to go through. I don't know what to say except: I see you, and I hope the next appointment will be a better one. It is really tough to be on the business end of this kind of crass favoritism.

Thanks, nescafe. I know my emotional reaction to this is far more intense than the situation warrants, but the situation still seemed to lack certain elements of common courtesy.

When you're already isolated, being ignored by the few people you are still interacting with is just salt in the wound.

Odd thing is both prof. (who is also an MD) and other TA expressed concern about my well-being and offered to help in any way they could when they learned, late in the term, that I had been and still was struggling with multiple physical and mental health challenges throughout the term. They sounded sincere; I was touched. And then they went back to barely acknowledging my existence. And being ignored by people who know you are struggling hurts worse than being ignored by people who think you are doing fine.

Other TA strongly and repeatedly implored me to keep in touch with her because she went through similar issues earlier in grad school. Then she ghosted me.

I know the general advice in these situations is to not take it personally. To give people the benefit of the doubt, because you never know if they may be dealing with serious issues themselves. This is my usual way of thinking; but it's happening so often lately I'm getting burnt out on thinking up excuses for people. I know it's probably not malicious and it may not be intentional, but I don't always know what people mean when they say "don't take it personally," especially when the other person made it personal by offering to help or at least check in once in a while and then never following through. Especially when they use such strong language as "I really care about you. If something happened to you it would be terrible. Call me anytime."

"Ah, well they probably just forgot or got wrapped up in other things; don't take it personally." It isn't personal to be forgotten or ignored by someone? Even if it's by someone close to you like a partner or a friend or even a therapist (who is actually paid to have an interest in your well-being)?

[Cheerful]

I know the general advice in these situations is to not take it personally. To give people the benefit of the doubt, because you never know if they may be dealing with serious issues themselves. This is my usual way of thinking; but it's happening so often lately I'm getting burnt out on thinking up excuses for people. I know it's probably not malicious and it may not be intentional, but I don't always know what people mean when they say "don't take it personally," especially when the other person made it personal by offering to help or at least check in once in a while and then never following through. Especially when they use such strong language as "I really care about you. If something happened to you it would be terrible. Call me anytime."

"Ah, well they probably just forgot or got wrapped up in other things; don't take it personally." It isn't personal to be forgotten or ignored by someone? Even if it's by someone close to you like a partner or a friend or even a therapist (who is actually paid to have an interest in your well-being)?

The more people you meet over the years, smallcleanrat, the more you will understand what people are like.

I frequently sit in long faculty meetings in which I am not acknowledged or asked my opinion, same for most others in my dept.  It's not personal at all and I don't take offense.  The usual talkers talk, the rest of us listen (or not).

Isn't there survey data on how many people respondents report are truly best friends that they can trust and count on?  The average number is usually small. 

When people show you who they are, keep that data in mind and structure your future thoughts and interactions accordingly.

So, maybe lower your expectations of people and then you won't be so disappointed.  At times, you will be pleasantly surprised.  There are many good people in this complex world.

[sprout]

I frequently sit in long faculty meetings in which I am not acknowledged or asked my opinion, same for most others in my dept.  It's not personal at all and I don't take offense.  The usual talkers talk, the rest of us listen (or not).

I'd also add that it's common for people to assume that if someone has something to say, they will speak up.  If people think you have a pattern of not saying anything during meetings, they might not be looking for you to comment. It's weird and strange on Zoom because there aren't as many nonverbal cues that someone would like to get a word in, but you may need to inject yourself into the conversation even it it's a little interruptive.  If you wait to be asked or even for a perfect pause, you may end up not having a chance to speak. The next time you're in a situation where you feel like you're not getting an opportunity to be heard, try challenging yourself to take that opportunity, even if it feels awkward.

[smallcleanrat]

So, maybe lower your expectations of people and then you won't be so disappointed. At times, you will be pleasantly surprised.  There are many good people in this complex world.

I thought they were already pretty low. It's why I rarely get angry and rarely argue, to the point friends and family have called me pathetic/wimpy/cowardly for letting people walk all over me.

Under ordinary circumstances, I can shrug a lot of things off. But I'm at the end of my rope here, I'm at the lowest point I've ever been in my life; these aren't day-to-day annoyances, these are people offering a hand when I'm reaching out for help and then yanking it back at the last second. I thought I was keeping expectations low for most people in my life. A "hi, how are you?" message once in a while, 15 minutes of friendly chitchat a couple of times a month maybe.

As for meetings, I'm generally not offended by not being acknowledged, but in most meetings I've been in there are more than three people. When there are only three, it's harder to ignore being left out so completely by the other two. There's also something very final about the Zoom host just closing the meeting, cutting you off. In person, I might have been able to say "Oh, wait please. I had one quick question/comment." The last lecture especially when he asked if the TAs (plural) wanted to say anything; he knows there are only two of us. It doesn't seem the same as not being asked my opinion in a meeting.

There was a time when I was getting ready to move across country after a fairly hellish year. I didn't have close friends at the time, but I did know a few people in my peer group I saw often, socialized with, and was on friendly terms with. I invited them to dinner, telling them I would cook. I just wanted to have one last meal and a night to hang out before I moved away. They all agreed and said it sounded fun. Two of three people canceled within an hour of our meet time when I had already bought groceries and started prepping. Well, ok. Things come up. And one person is still coming, so I'll just finish cooking and she and I can have dinner. I waited about 3 hours (after sending her texts and a phone message attempting to check in) with dinner for four getting cold on the table before concluding no one was coming. I was scared she'd been in a car accident. Turns out she had to work later than expected and then was too tired to want to come over (which she finally told me two days later). A cancellation text or phone call would have taken less than 30 seconds of her time.

Is it too much to expect the courtesy of a cancellation? People also told me I shouldn't take this personally. Maybe sometimes that's the point. Some things are not personal, but they should be.

If it's not personal, I think people generally mean you were not at all in the other person's thoughts. So, that person who ignored you in a meeting wasn't trying to spite you, it just didn't occur to them to ask you. Not such a big deal most of the time. But a friend or a partner or a health care provider acting indifferent to your well-being? To understand it's not personal (they were busy/preoccupied/didn't know what to do/etc...; they were not consciously trying to hurt or neglect me) doesn't make it any better. How much lower do my expectations need to go, even with the people closest to me?

[clean]

Car broke down yesterday. Had to have it towed to repair center (for second time).

The diagnosis (as there are no codes showing on the computer) is that I need a new fuel pump and filter. 
However, they then 'recommend another shitload of repairs. 
I asked if they had looked up the history of the work that I had done there.  I had ALREADY done every damn item on the list! !!

I have completely lost all faith in them.  How do I know that I actually NEED anything that they want to do?  Are they just seeing what they can put on a list because that is what the "Diagnosis Wheel of Fortune" spit out!

I would not have gone there again after the last fiasco, but for the fact that I had to get towed!  (and they are walking distance from my house!)

I have been able to negotiate down their original$1600 estimate for the work down to $1200.  I found another place that could do the job for less, but I would still ahve to pay this place something for the work so far as well as $85 for a tow to the new shop (AAA wont pay for a transfer From a repair center (especially a 'AAA authorized facility'). 

[smallcleanrat]

I frequently sit in long faculty meetings in which I am not acknowledged or asked my opinion, same for most others in my dept.  It's not personal at all and I don't take offense.  The usual talkers talk, the rest of us listen (or not).

I'd also add that it's common for people to assume that if someone has something to say, they will speak up.  If people think you have a pattern of not saying anything during meetings, they might not be looking for you to comment. It's weird and strange on Zoom because there aren't as many nonverbal cues that someone would like to get a word in, but you may need to inject yourself into the conversation even it it's a little interruptive.  If you wait to be asked or even for a perfect pause, you may end up not having a chance to speak. The next time you're in a situation where you feel like you're not getting an opportunity to be heard, try challenging yourself to take that opportunity, even if it feels awkward.

I tried this two ways in lectures: unmuting myself anyway and saying something like, "Excuse me, Professor...may I make a comment?" or sending him a text and/or a message in the Zoom chat function; no response, he keeps talking as if nothing happened; I wasn't especially offended by this, since the students try the same methods in order to ask questions, and he often doesn't notice them either (even when a student is frantically waving in their little box trying to get his attention)

In meetings, I tried using the chat function to interject. Sometimes it was noticed sometimes not, but I was able to get more of my comments recognized this way. Trying to vocalize to signal I wanted to say something didn't work particularly well with these two: "er..."; "ok, about what you just said..."; "wait a minute, I'm confused about something"... That yellow box indicating I'm talking shows up around my window; I assume that means the sound is getting through. They are both rather talkative people; sometimes talkative people don't really respond when someone tries to interject.

As for waiting to be asked...I don't do this for the essential stuff (TA-related topics), because that is my job; I need to understand what is expected of me and I need to communicate how certain aspects of the course are going. It's the long social chats I don't feel right interrupting without being directly addressed. If he asks her how her research is going, it seems presumptuous somehow to prevent the conversation coming back to course-related topics by saying something like "oh, wait; let me tell you how *my* research is going..." Not sure what the purpose of that would be.

[AmLitHist]

Does anybody else ever get sick of yourself?  I feel like lately all I do is complain, bitch, and moan.  I try to keep my mouth shut at home and with Kid #1 (who is bipolar and doesn't need me adding to their anxiety, though I sometimes even get fed up with their high-maintenance stuff and do slip and say something that I have to apologize for). 

Overall, things are OK, or about as OK as they get.  ALHS has some health concerns popping up (though none seem to be major), and I've got my own ongoing things (though I've gotten back on WW and am starting to get some weight off slowly, and my blood sugars are starting to come back down). And the uncertainty about work and life in general isn't anything especially distressing after all this time, though I'll be glad when things settle down on that front. Still, the routine things, including chronic pain, seem to be getting to me worse than usual lately.

Maybe this is just the point when being isolated is finally getting to introverted me, and I should be glad it's taken this long?  Ah, well, this too shall pass. But I do apologize to y'all here, if I've been snippy or rude.

Your grumpy friend,
ALH

[mamselle]

Toi, grumpy?

Non....

Not as far as I've noticed.

But it's kind of you to consider the possiblity and apologize "in case."

There are many folks in the world who never consider the possiblity, let alone apologize....

I hope the health, stress, and school issues simmer down soon.

M.

[OneMoreYear]

I just can't with today. It's too much.  I'm out of spoons and am tired of being shamed for not having more of them.