The Venting Thread

[apl68]

And this is why I double and triple-check things. Called the insurance company and they have no such record of my doctor speaking with them, or an approval. Waiting to call the doctor back (they're on lunch).

Grr.

Yes, smart to confirm.
Why has our society become so error-laden?  Seems rampant.  People not paying attention to detail, errors, telling you something's addressed and you find out it's not, etc.  Sorry you're having to go through all of this.  Gonna feel great to have it all behind you soon!

I'm not sure about other areas of life, but my main hypothesis regarding health insurance is that that their goal is to dissuade people from following up, and generally make them give up the fight. The more dispiriting they make the experience, the better for them.

So far I've had very little to disconfirm my hypothesis.

That, and the insurance system has become so inefficient and complex that it's very easy for stuff to fall through the cracks. 

A neighbor of mine, who also happens to be on our Board of Trustees and is in charge of the local hospital, groups insurance companies into categories of "Slow pay" and "No pay."  Hospitals and medical practices have to spend a huge amount of time and effort dealing with insurance as well.  At times their very survival depends on how well they can get money out of the insurers.  Many rural hospitals and practices in recent years haven't made it.

[AmLitHist]

Back in the 1960s, my dad was called for jury duty in a case where someone was suing an insurance company.  The lawyers asked him, "Do you have any opinions about insurance companies?"  He answered, "The bastards are all as crooked as a barrel of snakes."  He was back at work that same afternoon.

Dad was right.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Back in the 1960s, my dad was called for jury duty in a case where someone was suing an insurance company.  The lawyers asked him, "Do you have any opinions about insurance companies?"  He answered, "The bastards are all as crooked as a barrel of snakes."  He was back at work that same afternoon.

Dad was right.

Yep.

[marshwiggle]

My Canadian view of this is like watching some kind of dystopian fantasy.

[science.expat]

My Canadian view of this is like watching some kind of dystopian fantasy.

In Canada, do some people have private health insurance or is everything public? Here in Australia, we have public health care but you can speed things up by going private and over a certain income you pay additional tax if you don't have private health insurance.

[marshwiggle]

My Canadian view of this is like watching some kind of dystopian fantasy.

In Canada, do some people have private health insurance or is everything public? Here in Australia, we have public health care but you can speed things up by going private and over a certain income you pay additional tax if you don't have private health insurance.

While there are federal guidelines, each province has their own specific rules over healthcare. So things like drugs, dental, and vision care can have different things covered in different provinces. So private health insurance tends to cover those other things. My work health insurance covers dental and vision care, so that's mostly what people have private insurance for. I think the law in Canada requires doctors to either be part of the public system or be totally private, so in practice the private option doesn't really exist. (Someone else may be able to correct me on that.) But the important part is that if I got in a car accident in some other province, I wouldn't have to worry about a bill, since that gets sorted between provinces.

[arcturus]

I work at a major R1 university. We have lots of grants. Why is it, then, that the grant management software is so horrific? My expenditures are pretty easy: graduate student salary, my summer salary, and some travel. As I near the end of a grant, I should be able to assess quickly how much is left and how much of that has already been pre-allocated for salaries (our graduate students are on contract, so the amount remaining to be paid is known). Instead, I get a listing that includes "encumbrances" that have no connection with current contracts and do not include the fringe benefits (health insurance) for graduate student appointments. Last summer, the encumbrances included graduate student stipends that I had not yet contracted; now, they have no mathematical relation to the stipend of the student currently under contract. I do not know how people with complicated budgets navigate this system!

As a separate, but related, annoyance, HR does not yet know the fringe rate for summer stipends. How am I suppose to avoid overspending on this grant if I do not know the fringe rate for salary to be allocated in the month that the grant ends?

[clean]

Syllabus Change Time!!

I have an online class that I teach 3 times a year (each in a different time format... 7 weeks in Spring, 10 weeks in Summer and 15 weeks in Fall).

I use Examity for exams.  Since COVID they ask that exams be offered over longer periods.  So I have given the students a 48 hour window to take the exam.  Many, many schedule in the last time slots available.  However, inevitably, there is some problem that some will encounter.  IF they scheduled the exam in the first hours available, then they have time to fix the problems, or they would not even BE problems because there is time available.  In other words, nothing is required of me to intervene. 

Those that wait and have a problem, almost always require that I intervene to make changes to Blackboard and then to communicate with Examity in order for the student to be able to take the exam late (and hopefully not pay another exam fee).  These changes seem to take at least 6 and up to 10 emails between me and the student and the Examity Folks. 

Frankly, I m not sure about Examity all the time either!  They tell me that they have 'attempted to contact the student, but there we no answer', but when I forward that email to the student confirming their phone number, they claim that they have no calls from anyone ! 

Last night was the end of my 7 week Spring class. One student is only now finishing the exam because of some problems.  He logged in on time, but Examity required him to download a new file and confirm it was working. By the time they were all ready to start the exam, the window had closed!  I didnt get any notifications of problems until 20 minutes AFTER the exam was supposed to be started (10pm), so I didnt get the notice until I checked again on my way to bed at 11.  I made the fast changes I could make and sent it to the student, but as something had started on Examity's end, they needed to wait an hour before something on that end timed out, and that was After the extensions I had made so I didnt next hear from the student until after midnight! 


ANYWAY, I am NOW so annoyed by these unending problems that I am seriously considering whether to add to the syllabus and all test registration  reminders a notice that any student that schedules their exam in the last hour accepts all of the risks that there are computer or other errors!  That I will not extend any deadlines and that should the student miss a deadline because they registered in the last hour AND had a problem, that they accepted those risks!  NO more problems for ME becuase THEY decided to delay!

Thoughts?

[downer]

There are two dimensions. Would such a policy be fair? And would be be effective at solving problems?

I'd say probably not very fair -- while a lot of "technical problems" result from students not paying attention, and may not exist at all, some are genuine. Maybe you could require screen shots of the problems as proof?

Effective? That depends on the student population and the school. Most of my students are on the passive side, and deans tend to side with faculty if there is a complaint. I can mostly have any policy I want, within reason. So it depends on how the administration will react if students complain about unfairness.

[the_geneticist]

Can you limit the Examity time slots to all be during "normal business hours" or at least not past the time you'd normally stop checking your emails?  If you teach large classes, you will always have a student with a technology problem (unpaid internet is shut off, laptop stolen by roommate, etc.).  Ugh for Examity issues though. 

My vent:  The [Basketweaving 101 lab] has a HUGE waitlist.  This is a required class for anyone who wants to be some sort of [life of baskets] major.  I've been telling you about this issue for the last two weeks.  The list is getting longer, not shorter. 
YOU are the department chair.  It is YOUR decision to approve hiring more instructors and add more sections.  YOU need to make a d@mn decision and make it soon!  Your usual strategy of "if I ignore it, the problem will simply go away" isn't going to work.
This class starts in 2 weeks.  Either add more sections or YOU are getting the blame for the 100+ students who will be behind in their major.  I will message each and every single one of them and give them your email.

[fishbrains]

Syllabus Change Time!!

I have an online class that I teach 3 times a year (each in a different time format... 7 weeks in Spring, 10 weeks in Summer and 15 weeks in Fall).

I use Examity for exams.  Since COVID they ask that exams be offered over longer periods.  So I have given the students a 48 hour window to take the exam.  Many, many schedule in the last time slots available.  However, inevitably, there is some problem that some will encounter.  IF they scheduled the exam in the first hours available, then they have time to fix the problems, or they would not even BE problems because there is time available.  In other words, nothing is required of me to intervene. 

Those that wait and have a problem, almost always require that I intervene to make changes to Blackboard and then to communicate with Examity in order for the student to be able to take the exam late (and hopefully not pay another exam fee).  These changes seem to take at least 6 and up to 10 emails between me and the student and the Examity Folks. 

Frankly, I m not sure about Examity all the time either!  They tell me that they have 'attempted to contact the student, but there we no answer', but when I forward that email to the student confirming their phone number, they claim that they have no calls from anyone ! 

Last night was the end of my 7 week Spring class. One student is only now finishing the exam because of some problems.  He logged in on time, but Examity required him to download a new file and confirm it was working. By the time they were all ready to start the exam, the window had closed!  I didnt get any notifications of problems until 20 minutes AFTER the exam was supposed to be started (10pm), so I didnt get the notice until I checked again on my way to bed at 11.  I made the fast changes I could make and sent it to the student, but as something had started on Examity's end, they needed to wait an hour before something on that end timed out, and that was After the extensions I had made so I didnt next hear from the student until after midnight! 


ANYWAY, I am NOW so annoyed by these unending problems that I am seriously considering whether to add to the syllabus and all test registration  reminders a notice that any student that schedules their exam in the last hour accepts all of the risks that there are computer or other errors!  That I will not extend any deadlines and that should the student miss a deadline because they registered in the last hour AND had a problem, that they accepted those risks!  NO more problems for ME becuase THEY decided to delay!

Thoughts?

No, it's not cool to hold students accountable for problems with the software that you have chosen (or your college has chosen) for the course. They are not "delaying" if they are attempting to complete the work within the prescribed time-frame you have given them.

I certainly feel your frustration though. I like the_gen's suggestion, but I have no idea how Examity works (side note: what a dumba$$ name for a product that is).

[clean]

This is WHY we have a VENTING thread!
I am certainly not thrilled with the huge waste of time that these issues have taken.

Examity, especially after COVID wants/prefers a 48 hour exam window.  I dont have a real problem with the time, but I am not thrilled that there are a bunch of students that take the exam from 10pm to Midnight of the last day!  I have tried to rein them in to starting the exam by 10, but even then some students complain , "I can not take it before 10 pm."  I reply that they CAN take it after 10 pm, but it would be after 10 pm before the final deadline day, and the thought that they would have to take the test before the very last minute of the very last moment of the exam window is so foreign and distasteful...How would any professor think such a thing even possible??

Anyway, I agree that I probably can not transfer the risk of scheduling in the last hour to the student.  (BUT I would LIKE TO!!) 

HOWEVER, I can revert to what I do in my other classes.  IF someone misses the test, for any reason, no worries!  The grade on the comprehensive final will replace the missed grade.  That means that I ONLY have to deal with the problems that come up from the final exam.  I CAN limit the hours of the final exam so that I am not dealing with a lot of problems late at night.  I can even give 'bonus points' for those that take the exam in the first hours of the exam window.  That may encourage some to voluntarily take the final exam earlier in the exam window. 

For this class, the final, not not other exams, is open book, and most do much better than on the earlier exams anyway, so even those that have a problem with one of the first exams wont feel too put out by the Final Replaces Missed Grade policy. 

Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to Vent and the level headed advice that I need today!  I WILL include the final replacement policy for this class in the future, though!

[AvidReader]

I've had similar issues with a midterm I gave this semester, clean. I've been thinking that if I need to do an online exam like this again, I might set it from 8 a.m. to 8 a.m. to avoid the midnight hour complications. Ugh!

AR.

[arcturus]

I've had similar issues with a midterm I gave this semester, clean. I've been thinking that if I need to do an online exam like this again, I might set it from 8 a.m. to 8 a.m. to avoid the midnight hour complications. Ugh!

AR.

A word of caution: if you do not already have an 8am (or 8pm) deadline established for your class, you will almost certainly get complaints from students who did not realize that the deadline was not midnight (as this appears to be the default deadline for most LMS). I have a 5pm deadline for all assignments in my course *except* for the exams (which I leave as 11:59pm). I always have complaints at the start of the semester by students who miss the submission window for regular assignments since it is not "standard".

@clean: One work-around for the technical delays is to have a time at which it is due, and a time (an hour+ later) at which submissions close.  This is a loophole for students who wait even longer to start the exam, but does provide an automatic grace period for those who run into technical difficulties. While there are technical difficulties that could take more than an hour to resolve, that is going to be much fewer than what I hear you reporting here. Those who choose to start late, with a plan to submit late, should not expect (nor receive!) accomodations if there are technical difficulties.

I will also state that I do not use examity, so I do not know how they would deal with the above. All of my online exams are open note, open book, open everything. This removes my concerns about cheating. At the same time, my multiple choice questions appear to be sufficiently sophisticated (i.e., require application of knowledge and skills) such that the grade distribution appears to be indicative of student mastery.

[clean]

@clean: One work-around for the technical delays is to have a time at which it is due, and a time (an hour+ later) at which submissions close.  This is a loophole for students who wait even longer to start the exam, but does provide an automatic grace period for those who run into technical difficulties.

I have already tried that... Blackboard puts the due date in the calendar, so I have had students attempt to take the exams 'on demand' and then complain that Examity would not let them take the exam, BUT Blackboard (to them) gave them the idea that they could still take it until the last minute.