The Venting Thread

[smallcleanrat]

or hearing someone say "Problems X, Y, and Z aren't something you should be burdening your friends, family, or colleagues with. That's what the such-and-such office is for! Quit complaining, take responsibility for yourself, and reach out for help through the *appropriate* channels.

Hopefully, this 'person' isnt your spouse.  I seem to remember that the SO was not as supportive as probably should be. 

Good luck!  We ARE here.

No, not SO. Lately it's nobody speaking to me directly since I'm hardly interacting with people these days. Been turning to books/youtube/forums for help sorting out thoughts. Seeing a lot of "take care of yourself first" attitudes (with the correlating principle that you are not responsible for other adults, even if they ate close friends or family). Fair enough, especially considering the way things have been the last year and a half. But I do get the sense that a lot if people resent and feel disgust towards others who seem to need more than their "fair share" of help.

Was reading a thread in which the OP was struggling with a sister who lost her husband to suicide. Apparently, in the month or so preceding his death, he had been telling his wife he was feeling burnt out and approached her several times saying things like "Can I talk to you about something? I'm having a hard time here and I really feel a need to talk about it." Since the wife was feeling overwhelmed himself, she brushed him off every time, saying she wasn't in the mood to listen to anyone else's problems and that if he was having a hard time he needed to figure it out himself. Only with hindsight did she realize he was trying to ask for help he desperately needed. OP wanted to try to ease their sister's guilt by reassuring her there was nothing she could have done to prevent the suicide (and therefore no action or inaction on her part contributed). But OP was struggling because they thought it didn't ring 100% true.

A lot of the comments disagreed with OP and reinforced my own experiences that people just don't want to have to deal with another person's crisis (and don't think they should be expected to either). Even spouses or siblings or parents. Many were of the opinion the husband was not behaving like a responsible adult; he was too vague with his requests to talk to convey the seriousness of the situation. He should have called a therapist or a hotline or some other service (making the assumption he didn't try). He could have taken himself to the ER to be hospitalized. He failed himself; no one else failed him.

A couple of comments really stuck out: 1) a woman married to someone with chronic depression saying even if spouse explicitly said they were suicidal she would not feel responsible for making sure he gets help; he needs to be responsible for getting himself help 2) a therapist saying when a client dies by suicide the therapist is not responsible for that, the client is (commenter didn't elaborate, so I don't know if they think this holds for every case; what if the client outright tells the therapist they are suicidal and the therapist does nothing? Is even a mental health worker not the teensiest bit responsible for the welfare of their clients?)

Also seeing a lot of this attitude: "Yeah, *everybody* is depressed/anxious/lonely/struggling nowadays. There's a &@$! pandemic. You're not special, so stop burdening people who are dealing with their own issues and figure it out yourself."

[mamselle]

I think there are three levels to the answer.

1. Generally, yes. An in-tune spouse should be able, if not on the very first request for help, then certainly by the second, maybe the third, to take a moment, ask for more info, and if it can't be discussed in depth right that very moment, set a firm time for listening within 24 hours and stick to that, with full intention to follow up as specifically as necessary once the issue is raised.

Whatever else we ought to know by now, mental-health signaling efforts are usually sincere, deliberate, and often delayed by self-doubts and by fears about not being taken seriously to begin with.

"Busy" doesn't cut it, for me.

2. Backgrounding may mitigate the partner's response if there's been a history of "false alarms," but it shouldn't.

The "false alarms" each needed to be taken seriously, and if they were, and the presenting issues were even superficially resolved, they in themselves represent a pattern that needs follow-through. Fair enough, the partner may not be a licensed therapist, but minds move quickly, and we learned in high school health class in 1970 that it's important to know how to get help for others and then follow through on it.

3. Lack of experience if this is a recently-presenting issue may lead to tone-deafness or denial in the partner, but again, if the statements are repeated, then they need to find a tuning-fork, pull  their head out of the sand, and face up to the however unwelcome news that someone they have pledged to care for needs them to grow in directions they hadn't planned on growing in, and get on with it.

Ex:

A. I hadn't expected to have to deal with an abusive spouse when I said, " I do," but within a short time, I'd sussed out the basics and gotten on with it. (Obviously, a different kind of issue, but by asking around, even pre-internet, I found support structures to try to help us both and was working on getting them organized.)

B. A friend's wife has gone through 12 years of difficult diagnostic effort, but they finally have identified the quite rare, debilitating disease she has and he's stuck with her graciously all the way. His understanding of "for better or for worse" floors me sometimes, but he has a responible job, keeps it, and attends to her needs as well.

C. Whatever you may hear, believe, or think of the British royals, one young man took his wife's declarations of distress at face value and has moved both Hades (if that's not too fine a mis-characterization of the Palace puppeteers in their back offices who are determined to keep the machinery turning over, tickety-boo, no matter who's caught in the gears) and high (or deep) water--an Atlantic Ocean's worth of it, in fact--to help her.

An important point in 'C' might be that he'd seen it play out when people tried to deny or dismiss his mom's problems, so he knew more directly how seriously such problems needed to be taken, but the point is, he took them seriously and effected a change, and not without cost to himself, either.

TV sitcom 45-min. resolutions haven't helped, cultural memes like, "ignore it and it will go away" (my mom's favorite bit of '50s wisdom) don't help, and the continued stigmatization of mental distress doesn't help, either.

Compassion does.

But I think one needs to then offer compassion to the surviving partner as well. If you're tone-deaf, you don't always know what a tuning fork is or how to use one. If you're distressed yourself, you may not realize there's a level of stress beyond your own that's even more serious. If you've never dealt with anything remotely like mental illness, you may not know how to recognize a qualitative difference in distress-signalling, or if the individual's affect is characteristically 'flat,' or quiet, or non-demonstrative, there might not have been a discernible variation in the amplitude of the messages to sink in.

One would really think the increased frequency might have been a clue. But we each have enough to get on with in life that we truly can't take on the extra job of judging others. Any day, anytime, now, the same measuring stick could be applied to us, too.

And no-one can assure us that our own cries for help might be any better heard, either. We might want to be able to hope that they would, and trust that our safety nets will all hold, but, difficult as it is to face, there are no guarantees, either in law, or in custom, that others will be perfectly there for us all the time.

We're really all just keeping on, a step at a time, hoping (and/or praying) for grace for ourselves while meting it out to others as best we can, as well.

M.

[smallcleanrat]

I just don't know what else I'm supposed to do.

If you can't turn to friends and family and the professional services are almost completely unresponsive (not exaggerating; e.g. therapist has canceled or not shown for at least 4 out of every 5 appointments for several months), what's left?

I now know better than to believe anyone who says "Let me know if you need to talk" or "Call me if you ever need me", no matter how close the relationship. But then there's no one to turn to when the professional services won't give you the time of day.

I attended a Zoom workshop about "vulnerability in academia" or something (forget the exact title), and I mentioned the frequent difficulty of getting calls returned or messages answered from the student counseling center, and the poor quality of the therapy sessions I did manage to book. The workshop leader emailed me afterward saying it sounded as though I were struggling and they wanted to "encourage" me to seek support from...the student counseling center. *headdesk*

I'm tired of the glib "don't be afraid to ask for help" messages we get at such workshops. A person can be *screaming* for help and still not be heard.

[clean]

On 8/21 student emails that on 8/16 she tested CV positive.  Noted that she had completed the online form and will quarantine for 10 days.   (which would have ended on day 3 of classes).  Today (day 16 of classes) she replies to my email noting that she was in danger of 'penalty points' for missing 2 sets of homework.  She says that she is no longer positive and ready to start the make up work.

She wont be all that thrilled with my reply which notes that I have a no make up policy in the syllabus, that she has ignored several emails noting that she was missing work, and that quarantine does not mean that she is relieved of the ONLINE assignments in the ONLINE Class she registered to take!!

How does a 10 day quarantine stretch into a 26 day quarantine WITH a release from doing ONLINE work?

[ergative]

On 8/21 student emails that on 8/16 she tested CV positive.  Noted that she had completed the online form and will quarantine for 10 days.   (which would have ended on day 3 of classes).  Today (day 16 of classes) she replies to my email noting that she was in danger of 'penalty points' for missing 2 sets of homework.  She says that she is no longer positive and ready to start the make up work.

She wont be all that thrilled with my reply which notes that I have a no make up policy in the syllabus, that she has ignored several emails noting that she was missing work, and that quarantine does not mean that she is relieved of the ONLINE assignments in the ONLINE Class she registered to take!!

How does a 10 day quarantine stretch into a 26 day quarantine WITH a release from doing ONLINE work?

Maybe she got sick as well as testing positive?

[clean]

That is certainly possible.  However, I would have expected that I get some update to All of the emails that are sent.  IF she can document that between the first email of 8/21 until the email yesterday that she was unable to do online assignments, I will gladly allow the work that can be made up, be made up.  i dont have the ability to make up group work.  Besides, there are actually closer to 1100 points available to earn, but the grades are based on 1000 points, so missing these group assignments wont be harmful. 

Bottom line is that "I tested positive and have to quarantine" (all she sent) is not in and of itself a "get out of Homework Free" card!

[Charlotte]

...(with the correlating principle that you are not responsible for other adults, even if they ate close friends or family).

I really truly don't intend to be dismissive or flippant about the serious issues that you are going through. But I am having a difficult week and this typo gave me a much needed giggle today!

I agree, I'm not responsible for adults who eat my close friends and family.

[smallcleanrat]

...(with the correlating principle that you are not responsible for other adults, even if they ate close friends or family).

I really truly don't intend to be dismissive or flippant about the serious issues that you are going through. But I am having a difficult week and this typo gave me a much needed giggle today!

I agree, I'm not responsible for adults who eat my close friends and family.

Ha! That's fair; it is a funny typo.

[smallcleanrat]

Just got another bill for therapy sessions that never happened...

Trying not to be angry, because I think the therapist might be going through something serious, but it's hard not to feel abandoned.

And continuing to be asked to pay feels especially uncaring.

Have put in a request for a new therapist, but don't have high hopes of getting an answer.

Feeling pretty low.

[mamselle]

Just got another bill for therapy sessions that never happened...

Trying not to be angry, because I think the therapist might be going through something serious, but it's hard not to feel abandoned.

And continuing to be asked to pay feels especially uncaring.

Have put in a request for a new therapist, but don't have high hopes of getting an answer.

Feeling pretty low.

A. Don't pay the bill. Send it back with a note written directly on the printed bill:
     "Session cancelled by therapist, never re-booked."
B. Write a note with a copy of the annotated bill to their overseeing office or hospital.
      List dates and times of all sessions not held.

Too bad if "They're going through something," you are, too!

And the pattern of behavior you describe could as easily be someone scamming their office.

Make it known.

M.

[Cheerful]

Just got another bill for therapy sessions that never happened...

Trying not to be angry, because I think the therapist might be going through something serious, but it's hard not to feel abandoned.

And continuing to be asked to pay feels especially uncaring.

Have put in a request for a new therapist, but don't have high hopes of getting an answer.

Feeling pretty low.

Sorry SCR.  Please don't take any of these bureaucratic "mishaps" (?) and lapses in common courtesy personally.  Humans and processes sometimes don't operate as they should.

"And continuing to be asked to pay feels especially uncaring."  That's one way of putting it.  Another way would be: "...asked to pay is ridiculous, immoral, and possibly corrupt."

Sounds like the therapist does have some major issues at hand.  Good that you placed the request for a new one.  Hope you can speak with someone by phone to get a firm answer on when/whom you can expect as new therapist.

Meanwhile, be good to yourself.  I understand how you feel.  Please realize that cold, impersonal conduct is all too common.  We have to persevere and pledge never to behave like that ourselves.

ETA:  Posted at same time as M. and agree with M. 

[clean]

Just got another bill for therapy sessions that never happened...

There is certainly a phone number to the billing office.  Call them. 

IF there is insurance involved, they likely have a hotline for fraud, so that would be another way to make sure that this is resolved, ESPECIALLY if you have insurance, as THEY were billed TOO!!

Good luck!

[apl68]

Some children, for some reason, take great pleasure in shoving whole rows of books back on shelves or pulling them off of shelves.  This is an obvious problem at the library.  I can always tell when somebody has given a child like this free rein in the book sale room.  I don't say much about it because it does no real harm done to anybody and I don't want to discourage parents from bringing children (A single poorly-received word of admonition is enough to cause some adults never to bring children near the library again).  But it really does create needless work for staff.  It would also be a good idea if parents taught their children at an early age that etiquette when you're out in public requires keeping your hands off of stuff that doesn't belong to you.

[RatGuy]

Some children, for some reason, take great pleasure in shoving whole rows of books back on shelves or pulling them off of shelves.  This is an obvious problem at the library.  I can always tell when somebody has given a child like this free rein in the book sale room.  I don't say much about it because it does no real harm done to anybody and I don't want to discourage parents from bringing children (A single poorly-received word of admonition is enough to cause some adults never to bring children near the library again).  But it really does create needless work for staff.  It would also be a good idea if parents taught their children at an early age that etiquette when you're out in public requires keeping your hands off of stuff that doesn't belong to you.

My wife still fumes over an incident at the Lancome counter where she once worked. A girl dipped some of the makeup brushes (for makeovers and trials) into her soda then "painted" all over the display case. When my wife said something like "sweetie, let's not get those brushes dirty" the girl's mother called a manager. I guess nowadays such an incident would get caught on a cellphone camera.

[mamselle]

Some parents go through their children's lives "getting their own back" at all the authority figures who ever wronged them, or were perceived to have wronged them, when they were a child.

Makes for a backlog of an awful lot of pent-up,  vindictive children, many of whom have been older than 16 for decades.

M.