NSF CAREER Grant UPDATE Thread

[hulo]

Hi guys,

When is it a good time to inquire to the PO regarding the status, and what would be the format of inquiry? Second time applicant here, and my status has not been changed yet. I am funded by NIH, and it is different and more straightforward to inquire to NIH POs regarding status etc. I am afraid that my email to PO may bother him/er as the PO may be busy with making decisions...

[taray]

My status date changed to 1/4/2020 without PM contact. CMMI ECI

[humptydumpty]

My status date changed to 1/4/2020 without PM contact. CMMI ECI

Thanks for letting us know! Seems like CMMI is busy making decisions these days

[aspiring.academic]

Next week is going to be a busy week

[ttbeaver]

We should hear soon. I hope next week. Best luck!

[fizzycist]

Hi guys,

When is it a good time to inquire to the PO regarding the status, and what would be the format of inquiry? Second time applicant here, and my status has not been changed yet. I am funded by NIH, and it is different and more straightforward to inquire to NIH POs regarding status etc. I am afraid that my email to PO may bother him/er as the PO may be busy with making decisions...

+1. I have never gotten a useful response from NSF PO. One time (not career) it got past 6 months so I asked for clarification on timeline. Answer: just wait. Followed up 1 month later. Answer: your proposal slipped through cracks, just wait. Followed up again 2 months later: no response. Finally a few weeks after, I received a 1-sentence email saying it is funded and please send public abstract.

With my CAREER this year, I got an email in October asking for updated current/pending. Crickets and I was getting anxious, so asked for clarity on timeline in mid December. Instant reply: we aim to respond to 75% of proposals within 6 months. We will tell you when we made a decision.

Most of the other times I submitted to nsf I just patiently waited cuz I'm afraid to bother them.

Then again I haven't gotten much useful out of my NIH POs before either but at least gotten a few phone calls with non-trivial info after receiving summary statement.

[aspiring.academic]

It sounds like outside of the PO's name many folks don't know how the PO operates, which then would lead to "I don't want to bother them" posts.

If the only time you're contacting your PO is to check on the status of your proposal, I can see why there would be some issues here. POs are people at the end of the day and should be treated as such. Think about it, do you like hearing from people only when they want/need something?

From my previous experience, most POs like to hear from researchers. I've had lunch with a handful of POs over the last few years and it's never because I had a proposal pending, or funded, with them. I just wanted to get to know them a bit better and gauge what they may be interested in funding and they were trying to gauge whether I would be a fit for funding. Therefore, when I email, I do get replies usually right away and I'd venture to guess that is because I'm not just another email from someone they do not know asking what the status of a proposal is that is within the 6 month window.

When you do want to follow-up on a proposal the shorter the email the better. And it needs to get right to the point. You need to supply the PO with the solicitation for which you submitted the proposal as well as the proposal number. If you have another agency where you need feedback from the NSF to complete that pending proposal (i.e., DOE or NIH), be sure to let the PO know this, but once again keep it brief. Your PO doesn't want an essay or even a paragraph. 3-4 sentences should be the target length.

Lastly, read between the lines. The PO isn't going to directly tell you which way the funding winds are blowing. However, the PO may say something along the lines of "be patient", which is saying your proposal is still being considered. If this is the reply then you need to wait and be patient. The PO may also tell you that your proposal "reviewed well", which is good, but shy of saying that it has been recommended, but also lets you know that the panel has met and most likely decisions will be forthcoming. There can be a delay in gathering the panel reviews and generating the overall summary and this is part of the reason panel reviews are not released as soon as the panel meets.

If your proposal has been declined, the PO has no incentive in delaying to tell you that information if they know it. Also, contacting your PO will not change whether your proposal was going to be funded or not. It's not like they're sitting back saying the next person to contact me about the status will have their proposal instantly declined.

In closing, get to know your PO and understand that the PO at any given time is working on multiple solicitations and not just the one for which you submitted. They get emails all day long about the status of proposals, which are tiring to go through, which is why they have the template email saying 6-months queued up.

[docwalrus]

Things are indeed moving along.  Status update with no contact (01/06/2020), DMR-BMAT.

[sossan]

Status update DMR-BMAT, no contact, no email

[zhupeifen]

The program I submitted to funded 5 proposals every year in the past several years. This year, they have already funded 6 proposals. I was asked for updated current&pending list in the middle of November. Two days later, I was asked to submit public abstract as soon as I can. After another two days, I was asked to revise the budget. At that time, PO briefly talked to me through the phone about how to revise the budget and he also said they are trying to fund my proposal but nothing is guaranteed. 

My proposal is still pending until now. 

This is my second submission. Last year's ratings are excellent, very good, very good/good.  This year's proposal was revised from last year's submission and the changes made mainly addressed the third reviewer's safety concern.

I am wondering what is going on with my proposal. Do I still have a chance this year?

Anyone has any idea?

[deeply_uncertain]

It sounds like outside of the PO's name many folks don't know how the PO operates, which then would lead to "I don't want to bother them" posts.

If the only time you're contacting your PO is to check on the status of your proposal, I can see why there would be some issues here. POs are people at the end of the day and should be treated as such. Think about it, do you like hearing from people only when they want/need something?

From my previous experience, most POs like to hear from researchers. I've had lunch with a handful of POs over the last few years and it's never because I had a proposal pending, or funded, with them. I just wanted to get to know them a bit better and gauge what they may be interested in funding and they were trying to gauge whether I would be a fit for funding. Therefore, when I email, I do get replies usually right away and I'd venture to guess that is because I'm not just another email from someone they do not know asking what the status of a proposal is that is within the 6 month window.

When you do want to follow-up on a proposal the shorter the email the better. And it needs to get right to the point. You need to supply the PO with the solicitation for which you submitted the proposal as well as the proposal number. If you have another agency where you need feedback from the NSF to complete that pending proposal (i.e., DOE or NIH), be sure to let the PO know this, but once again keep it brief. Your PO doesn't want an essay or even a paragraph. 3-4 sentences should be the target length.

Lastly, read between the lines. The PO isn't going to directly tell you which way the funding winds are blowing. However, the PO may say something along the lines of "be patient", which is saying your proposal is still being considered. If this is the reply then you need to wait and be patient. The PO may also tell you that your proposal "reviewed well", which is good, but shy of saying that it has been recommended, but also lets you know that the panel has met and most likely decisions will be forthcoming. There can be a delay in gathering the panel reviews and generating the overall summary and this is part of the reason panel reviews are not released as soon as the panel meets.

If your proposal has been declined, the PO has no incentive in delaying to tell you that information if they know it. Also, contacting your PO will not change whether your proposal was going to be funded or not. It's not like they're sitting back saying the next person to contact me about the status will have their proposal instantly declined.

In closing, get to know your PO and understand that the PO at any given time is working on multiple solicitations and not just the one for which you submitted. They get emails all day long about the status of proposals, which are tiring to go through, which is why they have the template email saying 6-months queued up.

This is a bit of cultural problem. Many of us come from many different places with very different cultures of understanding power and conversation. Different people read between the lines differently. For example, to me "be patient" has a negative tone with no direct information, instead "your proposal was reviewed well" has a more positive tone with more precise information about the proposal. Of course it could be read differently as you have explained. We are trained to write and read as clearly and directly as possible. We are not trained to read between the lines. And our diverse cultural background doesn't help us here.   

Definitely you were fortunate enough to get more opportunities to know your PO. I am sure these "I don't want to bother them" people also want to know how their POs operate. Probably they have written to them, received some cold replies, and thought that POs wanted to maintain a distance from them.

I tried to meet my PO, didn't get a reply. Sent a generic request if it's possible to include me as a reviewer, received a positive reply but never got a chance to be a panelist. Sent the abstract of my CAREER proposal last year, did not get a response. This year again sent my abstract and asked for a short meeting. Got a reply: we can talk if there are any specific issues. Eventually I switched to another program and submitted my CAREER after having a phone meeting with the PO. I served as a panelist for this PO and had a phone meeting about another proposal which got funded. I had chances to meet other POs who were also great to talk to.           

My conclusion: Don't generalize. Every PO is going to be different.
Whenever I want to know more about NSF and hear from people about it, I always think the story of "the blind men and an elephant" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant).       

[aspiring.academic]

It sounds like outside of the PO's name many folks don't know how the PO operates, which then would lead to "I don't want to bother them" posts.

If the only time you're contacting your PO is to check on the status of your proposal, I can see why there would be some issues here. POs are people at the end of the day and should be treated as such. Think about it, do you like hearing from people only when they want/need something?

From my previous experience, most POs like to hear from researchers. I've had lunch with a handful of POs over the last few years and it's never because I had a proposal pending, or funded, with them. I just wanted to get to know them a bit better and gauge what they may be interested in funding and they were trying to gauge whether I would be a fit for funding. Therefore, when I email, I do get replies usually right away and I'd venture to guess that is because I'm not just another email from someone they do not know asking what the status of a proposal is that is within the 6 month window.

When you do want to follow-up on a proposal the shorter the email the better. And it needs to get right to the point. You need to supply the PO with the solicitation for which you submitted the proposal as well as the proposal number. If you have another agency where you need feedback from the NSF to complete that pending proposal (i.e., DOE or NIH), be sure to let the PO know this, but once again keep it brief. Your PO doesn't want an essay or even a paragraph. 3-4 sentences should be the target length.

Lastly, read between the lines. The PO isn't going to directly tell you which way the funding winds are blowing. However, the PO may say something along the lines of "be patient", which is saying your proposal is still being considered. If this is the reply then you need to wait and be patient. The PO may also tell you that your proposal "reviewed well", which is good, but shy of saying that it has been recommended, but also lets you know that the panel has met and most likely decisions will be forthcoming. There can be a delay in gathering the panel reviews and generating the overall summary and this is part of the reason panel reviews are not released as soon as the panel meets.

If your proposal has been declined, the PO has no incentive in delaying to tell you that information if they know it. Also, contacting your PO will not change whether your proposal was going to be funded or not. It's not like they're sitting back saying the next person to contact me about the status will have their proposal instantly declined.

In closing, get to know your PO and understand that the PO at any given time is working on multiple solicitations and not just the one for which you submitted. They get emails all day long about the status of proposals, which are tiring to go through, which is why they have the template email saying 6-months queued up.

This is a bit of cultural problem. Many of us come from many different places with very different cultures of understanding power and conversation. Different people read between the lines differently. For example, to me "be patient" has a negative tone with no direct information, instead "your proposal was reviewed well" has a more positive tone with more precise information about the proposal. Of course it could be read differently as you have explained. We are trained to write and read as clearly and directly as possible. We are not trained to read between the lines. And our diverse cultural background doesn't help us here.   

Definitely you were fortunate enough to get more opportunities to know your PO. I am sure these "I don't want to bother them" people also want to know how their POs operate. Probably they have written to them, received some cold replies, and thought that POs wanted to maintain a distance from them.

I tried to meet my PO, didn't get a reply. Sent a generic request if it's possible to include me as a reviewer, received a positive reply but never got a chance to be a panelist. Sent the abstract of my CAREER proposal last year, did not get a response. This year again sent my abstract and asked for a short meeting. Got a reply: we can talk if there are any specific issues. Eventually I switched to another program and submitted my CAREER after having a phone meeting with the PO. I served as a panelist for this PO and had a phone meeting about another proposal which got funded. I had chances to meet other POs who were also great to talk to.           

My conclusion: Don't generalize. Every PO is going to be different.
Whenever I want to know more about NSF and hear from people about it, I always think the story of "the blind men and an elephant" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant).       

You must be referencing the royal "we" and speaking about yourself. Everyone has training that exists outside of academia and that manifests I self in our social interactions.

I'll keep this short as someone who served as a fellow to several POs in CISE.

The people who work at the NSF are not a monolith. Each PO is different and each PO is ENCOURAGED to interact with fellow researchers. However, the workload during various times of the year for each PO also varies, which impacts their ability to have meaningful conversations. Additionally, many POs have good intentions, will read an email and say they'll come back to it and it simply slips their mind.

These are people at the end of the day. If they were cold or simply didn't respond there is no harm in allowing some time to pass and reaching out again. I've never once heard, and I've heard a lot, a PO say, "I don't like XYZ researcher". It just doesn't happen. And the 10 POs I've worked with are often open to having their minds changed as evidence is produced.

In closing, "a closed mouth doesn't get fed".

Good luck with your CAREER proposal and any other potential funding opportunities.

[anxiety_rising]

Any news, status update, or date change from EAR folks?

[docwalrus]

Rejected for the third time (DMR-BMAT, competitive).  I'll admit some frustration as it reviewed less favorably each year as I continued to address the panel comments.  In retrospect I should have focused solely on writing a good clear proposal while hoping for an enthusiastic panel instead of proactively addressing the critiques from each batch of reviewers.

[shaomingfu]

Rejected for the third time (DMR-BMAT, competitive).  I'll admit some frustration as it reviewed less favorably each year as I continued to address the panel comments.  In retrospect I should have focused solely on writing a good clear proposal while hoping for an enthusiastic panel instead of proactively addressing the critiques from each batch of reviewers.

Sorry to hear that.. Good luck for your future NSF regular grants!